Lotto Graphs / numberselection

[foreverbob]

Hi everybody,

I'm new here. Its a great forum with tons of information!!
Recently I am doing lots of research on lottery and pick3.
I was wondering if some of you have experience with Lotto graphs. Some time ago I stumbled upon a guy on youtube, making his own graphs in an excel sheet. He had his numbers at the top from 1 to 49 all in collumns, and then line by line (by date) he put a cross on the corresponding drawn number.
After lets say 20 draws he had like what he called a Lottograph, showing all drawn numbers marked as "X" all over the grid.
Then he looked for groups of numbers coming down. Drawing straight lines, interconnecting several stars into a straight line or curve.
Then he would have like "hot spots" indicating a concentration of several lines coming together and those spots would be very interesting future numbers to bet on. Not always for the very next draw, because the lines could vary and continue, but during the course of some future draws, many times numbers followed this kind of pattern.

I think the most beautiful aspect of Lotto is also the most dificult one:
NUMBERSELECTION
After we have our numbers, then we can eliminate some of them to have a selected few. These end up in our wheel and thats all there is too it.

So lets stick to numberselection, which I think, many players have all sorts of different approaches to it.
I made lots of graphs, trying to look for patterns, reocurring events, frequencies and all that. I even used Fibonacci sequences to look for interconnections.
It is amazing how things can match. Everything seems to be caught up in some kind of pattern. The only problem about patterns is:
We know they exist, but we only can see them AFTER they happen, so they are somewhat unpredictable.

I realy believe combining strategies is the best thing to do.
I used simonsez strings together with the Lottographs to get my pool of numbers. The graph-numbers that would match with the string-numbers would be the ones I'd play.

Personaly I think having statistics of past draws is important ( the Lotto graphs are also based upon what happened before).
But we are talking about a random event and every ball has the same probabality as any other ball to be drawn. We can only follow a pattern, or exclude it from happening again.

If a number has come up 3 times consecutively in a 6/45, it will be logical to think this is a coincidence, and therefor it would be wise not to include that number in your next bet. But at the same time, we can see a pattern and the graph will tell us to follow the pattern up untill it breaks.

I have very mixed feelings about numberselection in general.
Thats why I started with graphs so I can visualy feel whats going on.
It is a long and winding road.

If someone is interested in the graph part and patterns, please let this to be continued.



Best regards to all,
Bob

 

[blitzed]

hiya Bob, welcome!

I have some lotto spreadsheet you might be able to tweak to your liking:
http://crazynuts.hollosite.com/lottery_spreadsheets/

lotto 6/49:
ONT49.ods
649_Lottery.ods

pick3:
Pick3-CA_Daily3.ods

at a glance you can see where balls have dropped for each ballslot...I think I have counts too, for 6/49 don't remember.

pick3 stuff here ifya haven't already seen it:
http://crazynuts.hollosite.com/daily3_pick3_lottery/

you can also paste some past draws for either game into the My Lottery QuickPicks [MLQP]:
http://crazynuts.hollosite.com/my_lottery_quick_picks/

it'll display basic number count...don't get too crazy with game history, it should be able to handle up to 100draws for 6/49 I guess...I don't go over a month for pick3, mostly 6, 16 or so.

you mentioned Simonsez strings...instead of using static offset formulas, you might want to try your own offset values & operations on Lottery WorkBench [LWB]:
http://crazynuts.hollosite.com/lottery_workbench/

cheers!
blitzed

 

[foreverbob]

Thanks Bitzed,

I already had your site in my favorite list. Thats where I put in my numbers to get the Simonsez strings. Its a very good site, so keep it up!

I had been reading through 649 posts for a while before registering.
Will look into the graphs you mentioned, and get back to this topic.


Best regards,
Bob

 

[Icewynd]

Hey Bob,

Welcome onboard! Love to hear new ideas and new approaches.

You are absolutely right about following the trend until it breaks -- the lotto often comes up with extreme events that no one would predict. Look at the recent Lotto6/49 draws in Canada where the numbers 1-9 were missing from 8 draws in a row!!! Never happened before. If you had gone with the trend you would have been able to ditch 72 numbers over those draws.

I never thought of looking for lotto ideas on youtube. I will go and search out the Lottographs guy.

 

[blitzed]

Thanks Bitzed,

I already had your site in my favorite list. Thats where I put in my numbers to get the Simonsez strings. Its a very good site, so keep it up!

I had been reading through 649 posts for a while before registering.
Will look into the graphs you mentioned, and get back to this topic.


Best regards,
Bob

hiya Bob, you are most welcome, likewise thank you...glad you have fun with the mess of lotto stuff on my funky hobby site.

cheers!
blitzed

 

[Icewynd]

OK, so I looked at the video. Too bad the guy doesn't tell you what he is doing, but the visual gives the general idea. Gotta get me some chopsticks!

I had a look at the graph that I keep for Ontario 49 (6/49 game) and I spotted some "lines" that, if continued, would suggest numbers to play.

I came up with the following: 9-10-11-17-18-19-26-27-42-43-44. The mid-twenties haven't come up for 8 draws so I added 24-25 and there are also empty areas on either end of the graph so I added 3 and 47.

3-9-10-11-17-18-19-24-25-26-27-42-43-44-47. The teens have been pretty overdone lately, so I'm not sure about the 10-19 group, but that seems to be where the graph is pointing. Will report back after tonight's draw.

BTW, there used to be a guy around here named DaveT who used a similar method. He would randomly generate 5 sets of 9 numbers covering 45 of the 49 numbers and then he would add each set to the bottom of his graph in turn to see how each set seemed to fit with the patterns he saw. He would then play his chosen set of 9 numbers in a full wheel. Reportedly it was working pretty well for him. He hasn't been heard from lately so he either won the big one or got disgusted with the whole thing

 

[Icewynd]

OK -- last night's winning ON49 numbers: 7-14-23-30-32-47(41).

Not so good, only one number. Ah well, good thing I didn't actually play them.

 

[foreverbob]

Nice that you found the videos. There are 3 in total which can give a better idea about whats going on with these graphs.
When you make a graph and have your group of numbers for the next draw, make sure to keep that graph.
Its surely not certain you will hit these numbers in the very next draw.
Lines continue their direction, and it is possible that in a second future draw numbers will hit that were in some of the lines direction.
Its a bit about frequencies. Suppose you have 3 Xs that interconnect in a line, having 1 draw in between every 2 Xs, then its possible, if you follow the trend, not to bet in the next draw, but in the second next draw. You need to follow the frequency of hits in between draws.
So when you have made a graph and the numbers you've selected to play dont hit, then follow the same lines and select the numbers for the second next draw. Then you make your new graph including the new last drawn numbers and compare both
1/ the old graph continuing to a second draw,
2/ and the new graph with the new numbers.
I sometimes even use 3 graphs.
Maybe this is a theory that doesnt stand very strong and it needs a lot of good judgement, because it gets more and more complex if a line tends to bend or break up.
I have seen very nice lines and curves that do continue and keep hitting. It is a fact that patterns do emerge, and in lotto it is a good thing to follow trends.
This method is a very nice and fun approach to select your numbers.
I am still of the opinion that combining strategies and methods are THE only way to better understand what is happening with these lottery numbers.
Studying past results is good to predict possible future outcomes. All methods related to past results explained in various books on lottery are to some point very interesting, but can only give you a better understanding in what numbers better to play and what numbers not to play.
They can never guarantee a 100% win.
What is very typical about these Lottograps is that many times we will create a lot of adjacent numbers from the last draw. This happens because the last X of our line is from the previous draw. No matter where the line comes from, it is very likely that it will cross the field of one of the two adjacent numbers. So if your line crosses the number 15, its possible to have 14 and 16 as lottograph numbers.
Thats why it is fun to run some simonsez strings and select the numbers that match the most.
Currently I am studying Gail Howards book The Lottery Master Guide. I know you guys probably know that book already, but I am quite new to lottery and I think its a good read for people who want to know more about it. Combining some of her many strategies, making some lottographs, running some strings...it can all get very busy to get the right numberselection.
I am realy looking forward to know more about it!

Best regards to all!

Bob

 

[Icewynd]

Thanks, Bob. I only saw the one video on YouTube, so I will go and search out the others.

Also, thanks for the tip about looking at how the trend developed (skipping a draw or two in between hits). That is something that I had not considered.

I think that you are right to combine these ideas with the Simonsez number strings (old numbers + or -1 or 2). Once you have your potential Simonsez numbers maybe you could use the trend lines to eliminate some areas of the graph in order to reduce the total numbers played.

I agree that some of these trends can continue for quite a long time. I'll have to put some work into understanding how to recognize the beginning of a new trend and the end of an existing one. Any thoughts?

 

[foreverbob]

Icewynd,

In my opinion I dont like to go back too much in time to start looking for a trend line. Usualy I make one graph that does start from up above 15 to 20 drawings back. I look for patterns like you've seen on the Lottograph videos.
This will be a very ruff graph, it will include many lines going all sorts of directions. It will include lines that go cold and stop the trend somewhere in the middle and pick up the trend later on. These lines are risky because they lose their predictable frequency or pulse.
Having this graph, however is a good thing.
I combine it with fresher graphs, starting from at least 2 to 3 points back that look like having a stable direction. They can still vary, thats why I include the direction into a select amount of future draws. Mostly not more than 2 to 3 draws, depending on their frequency. If they lost me somewhere on that road, I'll give up on them.
The point of all this, is to make several graphs and compare the results. Thats why it is sometimes a time consuming job. I use square grid paper and do everything manualy on copies. Excel prints mostly dont have accurate squares, hights and widths can vary.
Most of the time looking at the amount of pixels when changing those coordinates can help to have widths and hights more or less equal to eachother. A tip would be to add 2 to 3 pixels more in the height rows than to the width collumns.
I find this very important since I am not only drawing straight lines, but also using a drawing compass to look for patterns using several sequences.
Thats where I decided to post something on this forum before it gets out of hand. I am not sure if all this is worth the effort, but sure it is a fun thing to do!

 

[Icewynd]

Thanks Bob. I went back and watched the other two Lottograph videos, which gave a lot more information. The key point was to draw lines through all the points and to look for intersections along the bottom where the next draw would be added to the graph.

I made a graph going back about 15 draws and I get your point about having a lot of lines. I also added some circles where it seemed warranted. I like your idea about looking at only the last few draws using this method. I'll give that a try. And, yes, it is fun!

 

[foreverbob]

Yes indeed, Icewynd.
I actualy prefer to look at recent draws to look for trends.
I am not sure if you are familiar with the Lottery Master Guide from Gail Howard. I am reading that book now and find it dificult to believe in long term Lotto trends.
I think its better to study last 10 drawings and look for trends and bias in that field.
The bigger field of past drawings is interesting as well, worth looking into, but if we talk about trends, lines, bias and circles, they just work short term IMO.
I use the Long term Lotto trends just to eleiminate a few numbers when necesary, its more like an extra tool to me.
Having lines coming from far away can produce a moving group, but its too unstable to predict exact numbers in one draw. And thats what its all about:
We need to predict one draw at a time.

 

[Icewynd]

Well, I have looked at my 15 draw graph and at my 5 draw graph and I have come up with some ideas. The 15 draw graph produces more lines and more numbers, but also more uncertainty. The 5 draw graph is easier to read, but produces fewer numbers.

So, it seems that the 15 draw graph would suggest the following:

8-10-13-14-15-17-21-24-29-30-32-33-38-42-48

The 5 draw graph produces:
8-15-17-30-40-42

8, 15, 30, and 42 are common to the two graphs. I'm a little hesitant about the all the teens since that decade has been now present for 12 draws without a miss (normally 1 miss in 4). And the 30's decade has been around second longest for 6 draws without a miss. It seems that the graph might depend a little too much on recent history.

These numbers are for Ontario 49 which will be drawn tonight, so we will see what happens.

 

[Icewynd]

So, it seems that the 15 draw graph would suggest the following:

8-10-13-14-15-17-21-24-29-30-32-33-38-42-48

The 5 draw graph produces:
8-15-17-30-40-42

8, 15, 30, and 42 are common to the two graphs.

Well, the draw is over and the numbers are: 9-10-11-24-32-49 (40), so I had the 10, 24, 32 and the 40 (bonus). Quite a good outcome, actually. This seems to be a worthy tool to add to my arsenal.

I notice that all the numbers came from the 15 draw graph which was the most difficult to create and interpret. I think that next time I will use a 10 draw graph and a 5 draw graph and compare the outcomes to the graphs that I drew for this draw just past, which also extends a few draws into the future. Thanks, foreverbob

 

[blitzed]

Well, the draw is over and the numbers are: 9-10-11-24-32-49 (40), so I had the 10, 24, 32 and the 40 (bonus). Quite a good outcome, actually. This seems to be a worthy tool to add to my arsenal.

I notice that all the numbers came from the 15 draw graph which was the most difficult to create and interpret. I think that next time I will use a 10 draw graph and a 5 draw graph and compare the outcomes to the graphs that I drew for this draw just past, which also extends a few draws into the future. Thanks, foreverbob

right on Icewynd, not bad in 15numbers!

later,
blitzed

 

[foreverbob]

Very nice Iwewynd,

I am glad this worked out for you. However it is just a tool at this stage. I use it as a tool as well.
Numbers 9 and 10 were both close numbers to your selected lottograph number 8.
How many lines were coming together around the nrs 8,9,10? Seems like this was a god hot spot. Depending on their directions its maybe worth folllowing those lines in the next drawings.
Here in 6/45 lotto we had 41 repeating 3 times, then 42 came, then 41 repeated again. It indicates hot lines and their bias.
Its also important to keep this 15 draw lottograph you've made and mark the spots for the next drawing without using the numbers from the most recent drawing. Only to compare these results with the new graph that do include the numbers from the last drawing.
This way, you have a broader field in which you can look for biases.


Best regards,

keep us posted, enjoy the weekend!

Bob

 

[Icewynd]

OK, might as well have another go for tonight's draw of Ontario 49.

I used the graphs that I prepared for the last draw and looked at the lines that projected out from the bottom of the graph -- pointing at the space where I would enter tonight's draw data. These were a 15 draw graph and a 10 draw graph.

Then I prepared new graphs for the current draw, covering the last 10 draws and 5 draws. I then examined all of these and came up with the following set of numbers:

1-2-7-9-11-12-15-22-23-33-34-37-41-43-44

We will see. I am still nervous about the teens as they have not gone missing for 13 draws now, however I included them because the graph indicates a major hot spot in that area (lots of intersecting lines). Also, the graph seemed to be pointing to 32 but I did not include it as the ball in the number 5 position has repeated 4 times in a row (anything over a double is very rare). However, the lotto gods have laughed in my face many a time in the past when I get these ideas!

Thanks to foreverbob for his tutoring. Good luck in your lotto endeavours!

 

[Icewynd]

1-2-7-9-11-12-15-22-23-33-34-37-41-43-44

Well, another 4/15 -- the winning numbers for last night's draw were
1-23-25-33-44-45 (24).

I'm likin' the results I'm gettin' here.

 

[foreverbob]

Thats a nice score you got there, Icewynd.
So we have covered how to get our numbers using straight lines. Do you have the feeling, you look for circles as well?
Personaly, I didnt invest too much time in circles because they are very variable and unstable.
Sometimes it is very useful to play some adjacent numbers when you have the feeling a spot feels pretty hot.
Also, but still in a very experimental stage, I like to look for interconnections using a compass. Then look for patterns using a same compass-distance.
It is very interesting how many numbers form a pattern.
I am bringing this up, because having a lottograph is very interesting and it is a tool that helps you visualy look at whats happening.
For example:
Using the Skip between Hit Chart from Gail Howard, is actualy the same thing, but with the skips numbered in between hits form the same number.
Combining this chart with a Lottograph is pretty fun as well.
BTW, are you using past data as well to look for bias like in the past 10 drawings?
Id like to talk more on compass use in a later post.

Best regards,

Bob

 

[Icewynd]

Hey Bob,

Yes, these results are mostly on straight lines which intersect in the target zone (i.e. the line below the current draw). I like the idea of circles, though, because they explain those empty sections on the graph and give you a concept of how the empty spot may start to fill in.

Re: adjacent numbers -- Yes! I am a big fan of the Simonsez concept of neighboring numbers. That system tends to produce too many picks, but the graphs are complementary in that they help focus on potential areas to concentrate your picks.

I do use a skip chart, actually I started my graph by copying the last 5,10 draws from the skip chart. How do you use the skips to enhance the lottograph?

Also, I would be very interested in hearing about the compass thingy.

Best 'o luck!