Here's a stupid question....

[thornc]

nipsirc:
what you are using is what I would call archive(ing) and it is by nature quite different from backup(ing)! Some(most) people will say that an archive will involve deleting the original file, I would say that archiving is keeping a second exact copy of the original in a different location!

That is also a pretty viable solution, nonetheless the story with backup is that you can have a regression to a previous version of a file if you rotate your backup target. That's why I tend to use multiple compressed files/different CD/DVD's!

 

[gsobier]

...yes, archiving... ...most people who are not IT professionals call it a backup where it really is an archival copy... ...either xcopy or some form of zipping, same thing...

nipsirc:
what you are using is what I would call archive(ing) and it is by nature quite different from backup(ing)! Some(most) people will say that an archive will involve deleting the original file, I would say that archiving is keeping a second exact copy of the original in a different location!

That is also a pretty viable solution, nonetheless the story with backup is that you can have a regression to a previous version of a file if you rotate your backup target. That's why I tend to use multiple compressed files/different CD/DVD's!

 

[nipsirc]

a BACKUP is a safe and accurate copy of the information stored on your hard disk made onto an independent storage medium such as another portable hard disk, tape, a diskette or a recordable compact disk or a DVD.

A backup can be a complete copy of all the files on your hard disk including system and hidden files, application files and data files, or a partial copy incorporating just some of these files.

The files are compressed into a form that can be Decompress upon restore unto the appropriate drive or folder in the target computer.

ARCHIVING involves copying information from your hard disk to an appropriate storage device before deleting the original, thereby releasing space on your hard disk. Particularly if you are running out of space on your hard drive, you might decide to archive the information you access least frequently. Information that is one or two years old or old versions of software that you no longer use are ideally handled in this way.

Alternatively, this is also used to store an exact copy of any important and delicate files/information unto a separate medium for safekeeping while leaving the original file intact in your computer.

Although the ways are different, one is compressed while the other is raw data, the end results and the objective is exactly the same. You'll have a copy of the important files you need in another totally separate medium from your PC that you can easily access later for file restoration, recovery or just for referencing purpose.

Depending on how much you do archiving or backup, you'll always have copies of the files as far back in time as you want or as current as can be. Both can be set up to run unattended and remotely.

An IT professional would always know that this is exactly the same thing.

 

[KIM]

which one is better though?

which one do you recommend?

 

[nipsirc]

which one is better though?

which one do you recommend?

The answer to "which one is better though?" depends on a variety of things, situation and resources.

Me personally, I use a portable USB 2.0 Compact drive with 40 gig harddisk to backup (or archive as some people insists) my personal and daily files. I do incremental backup as it is less time consuming and only changes the files that have changed on that particular backup time. My daily routine woul dbe to hook up my laptop to the desk server ports and then hook up my USB compact drive to the laptop. Then presto, I have instant backup redundancy threefolds.

At work, however, we use ultra density optical disk drives(1st instance) that has more capacity and a mirrored backup jukebox server (2nd instance) for redundancy. This is called HP Storageworks jukeboxes utilizing RISS similar to that of the IBM's Tivoli storage solution. Both are a little complicated, yet powerful business backup solution for large businesses and or those that have the money.

IMHO, I would recommend the USB compact drive for personal usage as it is very easy to use, portable, stable and very cheap. nowadays. As for business, that's another story and I cannot advise on that.....

 

[KIM]

thanks nipsirc

where do you think I can buy this portable disk like yours?

would Best Buy have one of this?

 

[gsobier]

NO, archives are an intent for a longer retention... ...there is no hard and fast rule about the status of the original copy of the data (could be erased, could be kept)... ...I have customers, using the word "archive" and the meaning is signicantly different... ...there is also disaster recovery too which is a different thing in some ways.

You are doing things on a very small scale... ...a large organization like a major bank has thousands of tapes... ...when a tape is written, an expiry date is specified so it can be reused when the data is deemed nolonger required by that date... ...data archived has a forever retention... ...get the idea/picture.

You guys doing backups and assUme a restore will work make me laugh... ...you should try to backup something like Windows 95 and restore it.

I'm wondering, have you ever TESTED a restore of the Windows you are using??? I have. Even better, if you make changes the correct way to things like your e-Mail program, as an example, a RESTORE should NOT cause loss of your e-Mail you sent today if you did it right. I bet you don't know how to do this 100% correctly. There are some important things you should know which I refuse to explain to you.

a BACKUP is a safe and accurate copy of the information stored on your hard disk made onto an independent storage medium such as another portable hard disk, tape, a diskette or a recordable compact disk or a DVD.

A backup can be a complete copy of all the files on your hard disk including system and hidden files, application files and data files, or a partial copy incorporating just some of these files.

The files are compressed into a form that can be Decompress upon restore unto the appropriate drive or folder in the target computer.

ARCHIVING involves copying information from your hard disk to an appropriate storage device before deleting the original, thereby releasing space on your hard disk. Particularly if you are running out of space on your hard drive, you might decide to archive the information you access least frequently. Information that is one or two years old or old versions of software that you no longer use are ideally handled in this way.

Alternatively, this is also used to store an exact copy of any important and delicate files/information unto a separate medium for safekeeping while leaving the original file intact in your computer.

Although the ways are different, one is compressed while the other is raw data, the end results and the objective is exactly the same. You'll have a copy of the important files you need in another totally separate medium from your PC that you can easily access later for file restoration, recovery or just for referencing purpose.

Depending on how much you do archiving or backup, you'll always have copies of the files as far back in time as you want or as current as can be. Both can be set up to run unattended and remotely.

An IT professional would always know that this is exactly the same thing.

 

[charles2]

This what i do to keep things simple.

1. Any programs i buy on i make a cd backup and keep in the safe.
1a. Any programs i buy or free stuff from the net, i also burn onto cd and put into safe.

2. Data i backup onto cdrw's daily and cdr's monthly, same to safe.

3. Any disaster, then i =
3a- reinstall and format windowsxp and any programs, updates etc.
3b reload data.

4. Since winxp i've found it to be so stable that i have never had to reinstall anyways !.

simple.

 

[gsobier]

Charles:

This is what I've done... ...make a partition for data, your data would still be there... ...just restore the partition Windows is in.... ...even more simple.

Anyone who installed Service Pack 2 should go back to Service Pack 1... ...I did a restore so I had Service Pack 1 again... ...the trick/key is, 2 Windows XP partitions to manage this properly.

Regards,
George

This what i do to keep things simple.

1. Any programs i buy on i make a cd backup and keep in the safe.
1a. Any programs i buy or free stuff from the net, i also burn onto cd and put into safe.

2. Data i backup onto cdrw's daily and cdr's monthly, same to safe.

3. Any disaster, then i =
3a- reinstall and format windowsxp and any programs, updates etc.
3b reload data.

4. Since winxp i've found it to be so stable that i have never had to reinstall anyways !.

simple.

 

[nipsirc]

NO, archives are an intent for a longer retention... ...there is no hard and fast rule about the status of the original copy of the data (could be erased, could be kept)... ...I have customers, using the word "archive" and the meaning is signicantly different... ...there is also disaster recovery too which is a different thing in some ways.

You are doing things on a very small scale... ...a large organization like a major bank has thousands of tapes... ...when a tape is written, an expiry date is specified so it can be reused when the data is deemed nolonger required by that date... ...data archived has a forever retention... ...get the idea/picture.

You guys doing backups and assUme a restore will work make me laugh... ...you should try to backup something like Windows 95 and restore it.

I'm wondering, have you ever TESTED a restore of the Windows you are using??? I have. Even better, if you make changes the correct way to things like your e-Mail program, as an example, a RESTORE should NOT cause loss of your e-Mail you sent today if you did it right. I bet you don't know how to do this 100% correctly. There are some important things you should know which I refuse to explain to you.

You got to be kidding me? You can do better than that !

That's funny you should mention that and quite coincidental as I just restored my office backup of today to my home computer and as far as I can see, my pst file is intact and the email I sent this afternoon is all there as well as all my other documents that I did today. Maybe during your time, they don't teach how to backup properly or backup at all, however during mine, they teach you to do it all. and i meant ALL !!! Even at the university level, they teach you how to backup properly full, incremental, etc.

When you say small scale, are you saying HP is a small scale business and they don't do enough backups like the banks? Maybe what you wanted to say is that we use less time and less manpower to do our backups because we don't use tapes and instead use optical drives whcih is 1000 times more reliable and effective and requires less human intervention. Those backup people don't have to change tapes all the time.

You don't have to teach or explain anything to me as I am sure that I know it already.

Windows 95? say what??? That's an ancient OS and of course, you use it.... Why would I even waste my time? How about we talk Windows XP/2000 or NT. If you want mainframe, we can also talk about that.... S/390, CICS, VM & VSE, AIX, VMS or even the dreaded AS400. You're not the only IT guy here G baby...

Embrace the future and its technology because whether you like it or not, cause that's where we're heading......

And easy on those young guys that are not as "experienced" as you are. They are just doing their jobs and in that learning curve. Don't blast them to hell like you always do.... We all been there once upon a time....

...get the idea/picture?


p.s.
And with that, I put my keyboard to rest. I will not reply anymore as this is useless and a waste of bandwidth.

I have said my piece and I'm at peace !!

 

[charles2]

Charles:

This is what I've done... ...make a partition for data, your data would still be there... ...just restore the partition Windows is in.... ...even more simple.

Anyone who installed Service Pack 2 should go back to Service Pack 1... ...I did a restore so I had Service Pack 1 again... ...the trick/key is, 2 Windows XP partitions to manage this properly.

Regards,
George

what happens if the hard drive craps out and you lose not only your programs but all the data which you had on the other partition of the same physical drive

 

[nipsirc]

You hit it right on the money, Charles !!!

Sorry, can't resist... but this I got to hear......

 

[Dennis Bassboss]

Nipsirc...if you continue like that you will replace me as the most hated character on this board...
NAAAAA....can't beat me....

 

[Nick Koutras]

Yes you can...

See this page:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/upgrading/matrix.mspx


The chart from Microsoft will give you a good idea of what systems will allow you to do an in-place upgrade to XP. If you’ve been contemplating upgrading your system, give the chart a look. It’ll give you a better idea about what you can and can’t do.

If you wish you can e-mail me to provide
you with some additional software that can be useful to protect and keep your system clean and free from virus and other parasites.

 

[gsobier]

...2 different hard drives (Primary Master and Secondary Master)...

what happens if the hard drive craps out and you lose not only your programs but all the data which you had on the other partition of the same physical drive

 

[gsobier]

Nipsirc...if you continue like that you will replace me as the most hated character on this board...
NAAAAA....can't beat me....

 

[charles2]

...2 different hard drives (Primary Master and Secondary Master)...

1. Lets say you get infected by a nasty eastern ex-commie european viris that wipes all drives ?

or 2. your powersupply starts a little fire and the inside of your computer is fried like a chicken wing?

 

[gsobier]

Sure, they teach you to backup... ...what good is it if the restore fails... ...you need to test and confirm a recovery is possible.. ...you have much to learn and wasting my time!

You got to be kidding me? You can do better than that !

That's funny you should mention that and quite coincidental as I just restored my office backup of today to my home computer and as far as I can see, my pst file is intact and the email I sent this afternoon is all there as well as all my other documents that I did today. Maybe during your time, they don't teach how to backup properly or backup at all, however during mine, they teach you to do it all. and i meant ALL !!! Even at the university level, they teach you how to backup properly full, incremental, etc.

 

[gsobier]

Depends on how much you care about your data... ...off-site storage and multiple copies if you want to go to all that trouble... ...you choose.

1. Lets say you get infected by a nasty eastern ex-commie european viris that wipes all drives ?

or 2. your powersupply starts a little fire and the inside of your computer is fried like a chicken wing?

 

[gsobier]

...once, long ago, Windows 95 was it... ...backup and restore was a killer... ...you got no clue and lack the experence!

Um, excuse me S/390 is NOT an Operating System! You don't have the expertise you are trying to show us... ...just a mouth.

Windows 95? say what??? That's an ancient OS and of course, you use it.... Why would I even waste my time? How about we talk Windows XP/2000 or NT. If you want mainframe, we can also talk about that.... S/390, CICS, VM & VSE, AIX, VMS or even the dreaded AS400. You're not the only IT guy here G baby...