Question

[Tommym]

I've been a "lurker" for awhile here and really have enjoyed reading all y'all!

I'm trying to approach the 5 number game with a method of creating categories for numbers [groups of 8]. Tracking these groups is interesting. it's like a pick 5 daily game. You need to pick 5 slots numbers 1-5. Most draws have 4 unique numbes and one repeat ie: 2-3-3-5-1. A few draws have two repeats ie: 5-3-5-2-3. And a very few draws have all unique ie: 4-1-2-5-3.

If I could get the correct "pick 5" then I could use other strategies to play the numbers represented.
If the bet is for one repeat, then I'm effectively eliminating around 8 numbers. If I'm targeting two repeats, then about 16 numbers eliminated. My gut says trying to target the two repeat sequence is the way to go, as I would then be left with 24 numbers to wheel or filter etc...

So, any ideas of how'd you play a pick-5 game where: 5 numbers are drawn between 1 & 5. Doubles/triples don't need to be worried about. Ie: if you pick #4 and 2-1-4-4-5 comes up you win both #4's. So obviously the order is not important.

Hope I've been clear. Any ideas are welcome!

 

[jack]

Hello tom,
0.1 = a
2.3 = b
4.5 = c
6.7 = d
8.9 = e
Example = 2-3-3-5-1 = bbbca
4-1-2-5-3. = Cabcb
Aaaaa ...... eeeee

 

[Icewynd]

There are two basic strategies to take here:

1. Pick the signature that happens most often (2-1-1-1-0, i.e. 1 group with 2 numbers, 3 groups with 1 number, 1 group with zero numbers). This will hit most frequently, but also will have the most combinations possible. Your strategy would be to correctly pick the group that misses and the group that hits double.

2. Pick the signature that hits least often. This will have fewer possible combinations (but still too many for play). Picking the correct numbers within each group is the strategy here. Even though this might seem easier, personally I would get bored waiting for a rare occurrence to hit.

BTW, what game is this? You say 5 groups of 8 is it 5/40? 5/39?

 

[Tommym]

Thanks Icewynd. After thinking abowt your post, I think I agree that this isn't the best approach. (and yes, it is a 5 from 39 game).
I have a simpler method that is fairly decent at eliminating 13 numbers about 2 times a week. I'm probably better off sticking with that. The problem, of course, is how to go about picking 5 from 26.
Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[Tommym]

I've thought for a long time that a multi-step method is needed to attack this game. First, pick a game with lowish odds. Next, find a way to reduce the number pool. Next, finda way to play remanding numbers in a way that doesn't cost a fortune!
Playing the 5-39 when it "sets-up" to signal the next pool of 26 numbers once or twice a week is a good approach. I just want to find a way to attack those 26 numbers withou t spending a ton wheeling. I'm encouraged thou because 5-26 seems manageable!

 

[Icewynd]

You are very smart to put your lottery dollars into a 5/39 game, IMO. The payouts may not be the stuff of fantasy, but the odds of winning something substantial are much higher.

What is your method for eliminating a third of the numbers in your game? You mention 2 times/week -- is that 2 correct eliminations out of 7 tries?

 

[Tommym]

Well, realizing that the odds are real and no "special secret" would beat them, I decided to approach filtering out some numbers as more of an art that science. My goal isn't to be able to predict which 13 numbers will never come out, rathar I aim to follow what the game is doing in hopes that just once I am right.
That said, I divide 39 numbers into 3 groups. Actually, I do this many times. For example, one set might be:
A: 1-2-3-10-11-12-19-20-21-28-29-30-37
B: 4-5-6-13-14-15-22-23-24-31-32-33-38
C: 7-8-9-16-17-18-25-26-27-34-35-36-39
The idea is to spead the number fairly equally across 3 lines. I do this with a few different groups.
Then I just track the draws and keep track of which grouping seems to have 2 out of the 3 lines present. I have found going with the immediate trend more helpful than looking for a "break" in a 3 line trend.
For example: I stay away from a group that is consistantly trending 3 lines: A-A-C-B-C,; BBBCA; BACAA;etc
And instead look at the grouping that is "clumping up" in 2 lines: AABAA; ACCAC; etc
Once again, no hard& fast rules here. More akin to trend following than anything else.
I can get on some decent runs where I'm picking 26 out of the 39, but of course that is still a lot of numbers and I'm not going to spend a mint to wheel 'em.
Hope I've explained my simplistic approach well. Any ideas are welcome!

 

[Icewynd]

OK, I use something similar with my 6/49 game. Unfortunately, if you want equal groups you are dealing with 7 groups, so more difficult than 3.

I divide my numbers into 2 groups of 7, corresponding to the columns and rows on the playslip. The most common occurrence here is 4 columns or 5 columns and 4 or 5 rows hitting about 66% of the time. So, if one could correctly identify which columns or rows were due to miss, one could eliminate up to 21 numbers.

 

[AllenB]

Tommym,

I have a Few thoughts on "Groups"
First of all I am not convinced that placing numbers fixed groups is are the Way to Go. By that I mean a Few unbalanced Groups should be Added to the Mix. I favor Groups of Numbers that change from Game to game based on fixed criteria and their individual History. I also favor groups with Variable inventories from Game to Game. This might sound crazy at first; but, it gives Me one more thing to track, the inventory of the Group when it was selected.
Here are 2 of the Many Groups that I Start With.
Filter 1 (Hits) Here I have 3 Groups based on the total hits of a number over the life of the game and/or over a variable number of fixed Games. I do try to balance this group by taking the Total Hits from the beginning over the previous 1000 games. Group 1 the Low Hitters, Group 2 The Mid Hitters and 3 the High Hitters. 3 Groups within 1 Filter For a 5/39 Game you have 3x3x3x3x3 options, Around a 1/3 Reduction in options yields around a 1/3 Reduction in Inventories. It also lets you use a code to track the Spread between Groups. Example 1-3-0 means 1 number from Group 1-3 Numbers from Group 2 and 0 Numbers from Group 3. It is sort of a temperature reading for the draw that you can use to Guess With.
Filter 2 (Out) Here I have 4 Groups That are Highly unbalanced. The Outs are 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 and 16-20 and above. This also has a drawing code with 4 digits. Example 3-1-1-0 would have 3 from Group 1, 1 from Group 2, 1 From Group 1 and None from Group 4. This gives you another thing to track and is directly related to Group 1. By it'self this Filter has a 1/4 reduction in options for a 1/4 Reduction in Inventory.
Putting the 2 Filters together Example: 3.2 means a Number that is in Group 3 of Filter 1 and Group 2 of Filter 2. This Has significant reductions in the inventory for a single Number in the Draw. Your resulting number pool would be the sum of the 5 stacks of numbers. Reductions are variable based on the inventories of the code and you guessed it the option Reduction is about the same as the Inventory Reduction.
Any Way, That's where I started about 2 Years ago then I wondered into Pick 3 and Daily 4.
I would enjoy some more Discussion about Ideas.
Good Luck and Welcome Again to the Forum
AllenB

 

[Icewynd]

Re: Hit group -- random selection will imply that the number of hits per combo will even out over the very long term(1000 draws is not long enough), with the proviso that 72% will be unmatched, 27% will be doubles and 1% will be triples. So are you betting on convergence? i.e that the ones that have hit less will be "catching up"?

Also, "outs" are measured by number of skips since last hit?

 

[AllenB]

My Hits are measured from the Beginning of the Game. 1000 Games is a look back at where those hits fell into a "balanced" set of 3 Groups within 1000 games. I can use any number of Games in the analysis. Since the numbers migrate when they are Hot or Cold. The More Games the More the Group position Stabilizes. I am going to look at smaller game Sets to See if the Group Attachment for Numbers changes.
Outs, Skips Mean the Same to Me.
I did a lot of work trying to predict and then extract Combinations from the Games Out Groups. Monitoring the 4 Digit Code by the Same Categories as their original Parts. Getting that Code Right is not that Easy and does not Reduce the Pool enough by itself. I also look at Games Out divided by Frequency and create 4 "Equal Groups" and Track it the Same Way. It is hard but not impossible to Get this Code Right but it is just the Beginning. If the Selection is Correct, there is a lot of work to do. Sticking with the Outs You then have to Guess the correct Out in the Group to Get the Digits that Match the Group. Assuming you Get all of these Right you end up with actual Combinations to Play that can range from a Few hundred to Over 3000.
Here is where I am.
Excel Tracks and Assembles many Columns of Data From the Past Draw. Every Number has a Similar Bit of Data Going into the Next Game. This is just a way of assembling some of that data and matching The Numbers that that fit a range of exact values. It is all Accounting for the Business of Random, and you know Accounting is at the end of a string of spaghetti Trailing the Random generator. It can't push back and even if it could all it would report is that all is Random. Even though we see Percentages of data that fit expected norms, the accumulation is completely Random.
I have have a few Filters that I will be using again, as I am Ready to Focus on it Again; PAB has a Great List in an Old Post on Lotto Forums.
If anyone has a Filer that they would like to follow let me know.
Extraction if one thing; but you still need to know where to dig. I am back dreaming about that Mine Again
Thanks for the Response.
AllenB