Proof that Lottery is Rigged?

bloubul

Member
Hi DrTalk

Welcome to the best lotto board there is.
DrTalk what was your personal experience with lotto and did you "FIND" a way
to make money out of it or did you stop in your tracks.

BTW I'm from South Africa

BlouBul :cool:
 

Nigel

Member
welcome to the forum dr talk

I must ask: where's the fun in having the lottery information just handed to us? That's a great idea, but that would definitely hurt the lottery business. This would eventually lead to a time bomb for the lottery systems in which its only a matter of time before the lottery guys answer special Joe's questions so he makes some sort of breakthrough and cheats the system with info given by the system from the get-go.

The lottery would then react with the crap you discussed about the different people doing the French drawing. They'll wine this "how are we supposed to run a business when the customers blackmail us with information that we must give them!"

I think we (lottery and players both) should just continue what we are doing. We need "blind" and dumb lottery players to help fill in the odds and us samart inteligent players continue to do what we are doing now. The lottery has to cheat because we do. Really its only fair, in my openion, because every now and theirs a new theory or software to increase the users odds of winning, and the lottery usually has to adapt (not always the fair way) to these threats.

What I'm saying is the lottery keeps changing and so must we, to keep up (this works both ways). I always view it as a war. Theirs a few instances of this adapting if you read moses kashanis' threads "global lottery solutions" and "mastery lottery software" under the "lottery software" section. Its a great read.

Nigel
 

DrTalk

Member
Nigel said:
I must ask: where's the fun in having the lottery information just handed to us? That's a great idea, but that would definitely hurt the lottery business. This would eventually lead to a time bomb for the lottery systems in which its only a matter of time before the lottery guys answer special Joe's questions so he makes some sort of breakthrough and cheats the system with info given by the system from the get-go.

The lottery would then react with the crap you discussed about the different people doing the French drawing. They'll wine this "how are we supposed to run a business when the customers blackmail us with information that we must give them!"

I think we (lottery and players both) should just continue what we are doing. We need "blind" and dumb lottery players to help fill in the odds and us samart inteligent players continue to do what we are doing now. The lottery has to cheat because we do. Really its only fair, in my openion, because every now and theirs a new theory or software to increase the users odds of winning, and the lottery usually has to adapt (not always the fair way) to these threats.

What I'm saying is the lottery keeps changing and so must we, to keep up (this works both ways). I always view it as a war. Theirs a few instances of this adapting if you read moses kashanis' threads "global lottery solutions" and "mastery lottery software" under the "lottery software" section. Its a great read.

Nigel

Hi Nigel & thank you for the welcome to these forums. You do indeed have a point and I understand it. However, let me try to draw a parallel for you so you might understand what I've scratched the surface on.

When one intentionally partakes in a game of chance, even if they don't know the rules, understands that there is "X" amount of risk involved. Correct? Let's use a slot machine for the 1st example. You don't really need to have it explained to you because all the information (pay table) is already posted right there on the machine. All you need to know is - "I put money in, I pull the lever and either I win or I don't." About as simple as betting on a coin toss. Or so it would appear. There is actually much more at play here than meets the eye.


The few thousands of machines in a casino vary in different ways. Variations such as cost to play (nickle machines to _$ machines), payout size, number of payout possibilities, single machine payout or progressive and of course the most important variation - PAYOUT PERCENTAGE Here is a quick quote from wikipedia on the subject:
"Payout percentage

Slot machines are typically programmed to pay out as winnings 82% to 98% of the money that is wagered by players. This is known as the "theoretical payout percentage" or RTP, "return to player". The minimum theoretical payout percentage varies among jurisdictions and is typically established by law or regulation. For example, the minimum payout in Nevada is 75%, and in New Jersey, 83%. The winning patterns on slot machines – the amounts they pay and the frequencies of those payouts – are carefully selected to yield a certain fraction of the money played to the "house" (the operator of the slot machine), while returning the rest to the players during play. Suppose that a certain slot machine costs $1 per spin. It can be calculated that over a sufficiently long period, such as 1,000,000 spins, that the machine will return an average of $950,000 to its players, who have inserted $1,000,000 during that time. In this (simplified) example, the slot machine is said to pay out 95%. The operator keeps the remaining $50,000. Within some EGM development organizations this concept is referred to simply as "par". "Par" also manifests itself to gamblers as promotional techniques: "Our 'Loose Slots' have a 93% payback! Play now!" It is worth noting that the "Loose Slots" actually may describe a very few anonymous machines in a particular bank of EGMs."

Any educated gambler will tell you that slot machines are among your absolute worst bets. The single most worst bet anywhere is keno. Matching all 15 picks means you are fighting odds of 1 in 428,010,179,098. But it gets even worse. Some places have 20 picks. Can you imagine the odds of matching 20 out of 20 from a field of 80 possible numbers??? Anyway, back to the slots example. Did you ever notice that the 1st thing you see when you enter a casino are slot machines? This is not for aesthetic qualities. It's because the casino knows that the instant gratification, not to mention lowest paying, machines are right there...BOOM as soon as you walk in. "WOW, look at the cool flashing lights and the sounds". pfffft! Yeah, this is where I wanna spend my money! DUH!:notme:


So we've already seen how they get us to take to a machine. But what about how they get us to stay and keep playing that machine? Again, there are several factors involved. I already explained the "eye candy" effect, so no need to repeat that. There's these cute little tricks that the one armed bandits have that stimulate a part of out psyche. For example, you pull the lever (or press the button) and the 1st two reels line up on the payline. But the 3rd reel lines up on something worthless. What's happening here is a "tease". The manufacturers of these machines know that when a player sees this type of outcome, it makes them think (on a subconscious and/or conscious level) "Oooh...look how close. This machine's gonna pay out big!" Now, combine that with the knowledge that the more you spin those reels, you're bettering your chances of hitting that jackpot. Sure, it may cost you $3,000 to win $300, but hey...it's a win, right?[/LIST] :no:

Believe it or not, casino owners discovered that the sound of the coins or tokens hitting the metal tray when there is a win, acts as a motivation for those nearby to continue playing and most probably up their bet amounts! What they did was commission someone to experiment and tell them what kind of metal they could use instead of the ordinary ones already in use, that would actually increase the sound and clarity of the coins dropping. Once that task was complete, they had all trays replaced!
[/LIST2]

***NOTE*** Do you see how complex this is becoming? I could go on for pages but I will stop here. The point of this post is to illustrate the crucial importance of knowledge in the most minute detail beforehand. For those that have seen the movie "Casino" with Robert De Niro http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112641/ you're probably familiar with how Joe Pesci's character describes De Niro's character.
"He had to know everything, this guy.
He'd find out the kind of inside stuff nobody else knew...and that's what he'd put his money on.
Even back home, years ago...when we were first hangin' out...he'd know if the quarterback
was on coke...if his girlfriend was knocked up.
He even figured out the different bounce you got off the different kinds of wood they used on college basketball courts, you know?
He'd be workin' on this **** day and night.
There was nothing about a game
he was gonna bet that he didn't know."
And in the world of lottery playing? This is equally as true.

As far as your line of thinking about how the lottery commission is a business and how they might suffer? All due respect...all I can do is ROFLMFAO. The whole point of this thread and all related ones to it is to discuss the possibilities and probabilities of certain underhanded activity by the ones who control the lotteries. Think of it this way, if you and I were playing heads up Texas Hold 'Em and you had a flush and only had 3 of a kind, you would win right? But let's say that when we turn our cards over, the dealer informs you that as of this moment, the rules have changed and that 3 of a kind beats a flush. How would you feel? Because this is basically what the Commission is doing with us, except in a much more complex and clandestine way.
 

DrTalk

Member
bloubul said:
Hi DrTalk

Welcome to the best lotto board there is.
DrTalk what was your personal experience with lotto and did you "FIND" a way
to make money out of it or did you stop in your tracks.

BTW I'm from South Africa

BlouBul :cool:
Hi BlouBul! :thumb: Thank you for your warm welcome!

I began studying the lottery back when I was in high school. At that time, I was determined to uncover some great revelation that would give me the inside scoop and a huge player's advantage. I would literally go for days, looking over the list of winning numbers since the lottery here began, certain that I would, in time, discover a pattern(s) of some sort. Now, with the technology available to us, we can utilize software to analyze that very thing for us. Thus far, I have found a small advantage with 3 number combinations and how those certain 3 numbers seem to be drawn together more often than others. This, however, is not a profitable scheme. The amount of combinations I would have to purchase to win a lousy $10 is far from feasible. But, it's still an ongoing investigation for me on many levels. I'm not just looking for a way to win (if there is one), I'm also looking at the activity of the people who control these lotteries. This is important!

How about you? Any luck or wisdom you care to share?
 

Nigel

Member
Thanks for the information DrTalk, I think I understand where your coming from. I know a little bit about the psychology of these casinos and I can see that its way more than meets the eye, as you explained. I would like to modify the point I made in my last post into a question. Having read your reply, would it make any difference if somebody got a lead and "figured out the lottery system"?

I think I understand your humor in me suggesting the lottery commission suffer, except that they would loose a little bit more money than usual is what I meant. Taking in money from tickets and slips and every once in a while somebody wins. They lose money, but still gain in the end.

I think I might of blown things a little out of proportion in my last post. So the commission is not going to crash because of a Guy who "discovered something". Even so it wouldn't be acknowledge because its net income insane enough to say "who cares about the one-offs who hack the lottery system!"

Last point: ill be graduating high school in a few weeks and I started circling numbers on printed out history looking for anything in my sophomore year. After a month I decided to use technology and discovered this forum. Ever since, I feel like a dumb *** for even trying to do this alone with a pencil. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Nigel
 

DrTalk

Member
Hi Nigel,

Don't be so hard on yourself bro. Depending on what you mean when you say that you're using technology to help pick numbers, you should be proud that at your age you're delving deep into the mysterious abyss and mythology of the lottery.

To address a few things in your reply:

This may sound contradictory to some, but I'm not sure that there is something to "figure out". There are so many factors that come into play when a lotto drawing is to take place. And each one of them is capable of varying degrees of effectiveness. If all you were to examine was the actual drawing itself, you would be overwhelmed with the infinite possibilities of contributing factors as to why the numbers that came out, did. That is a little vague. I'm sorry. I shall elaborate a bit below.

Picture, if you will, the tiny little room used as a studio big enough to hold the lottery tumbler, a host or 2 and 1 camera man. But in this case, let's go inside this room. While we are inside, there are no limits to what we can examine and no time limits either. Nothing is off limits and everyone involved must do everything exactly as we ask. I would imagine that the 1st place we'd want to look is the lottery tumbler machine and the numbered balls that go inside. Now, what if...and it's a big "if", we decide that we want to have each of those 49 balls weighed with a laboratory caliber electronic scale to check for variations. ***In real life, they actually do this before each and every draw to make sure that there are no fluctuations*** And what if we discovered that 6 of those 49 balls actually weighed a very tiny bit more than the others? Or, maybe they weighed a lot more than the others. If that's the case, that means that those 6 balls will spend more time closer to the bottom of the tumbler where the shoot is that they come out of. In terms of physics, those 6 balls (or at least most of them) should be the ones to drop and not the other 42. To give credibility to this hypothesis, I call your attention to the fact that this very scenario did in fact occur at least once in history. I believe it was somewhere in the US, the 4 people that are the only ones allowed in the room during the draw were in on a scam. What they did was brilliant, in theory. There is always a lottery official present in the room during a draw. He or she is the only one allowed to carry the tray of balls from a vault to the tumbler. This is to ensure no tampering can occur. But, the official in this case was in on the scam too! These 4 waited until the draw got carried over into the 10s of millions before they put their plan to work. The official, who's job it is to weigh the balls prior to the draw is alone in the vault during the inspection. He used a syringe and injected a small amount of white paint into 6 of the balls. This pretty much ensured that these heavier balls would be the ones to drop. These would be the numbers that these 4 people would play or have played for them since most jurisdictions do not allow lottery employees to partake in the lottery or any of it's other services. Well, the plan worked just as they figured. If memory serves, I believe what got them caught was that after the tickets had been cashed, all of them suddenly quit their jobs there. A little suspicious, don't ya think? But, greed has it's ways of clouding the mind. So you see, in this one example, simple physics demonstrated how the lottery could be successfully manipulated in one's favor.

Actually, physics quite possibly could come into play in other ways without the intention of "cheating". I'm just speculating here, but what if the temperature and humidity in the room had an effect on the machine and/or the lotto balls? What if the amount of friction of certain balls was +/-greater than the rest? What if the tumbler machine in some way had an effect on the way balls are juggled around and eventually dropped? What if....? See my point?

For a little clarification, the WCLC (Western Canada Lottery Commission) owns more than 1 tumbler. If I recall, I think 6/49 has access to 6 machines and several sets of 49 balls. The same would go for all the other lottos. Apparently, it's an all day event for the officials at WCLC when a draw is to be made. Yes, they do weigh the balls. All of them. Yes, they run test draws on all the tumbler machines to determine if one machine produces a certain pattern of results. I'm sure there's more to the mechanical end of it, but you get my drift.

On the more technical end lays a whole new beast all together. The electronic lottery terminals that print out your tickets! Don't think for a moment that either someone or something (such as a computer with tracking software) isn't monitoring the number combinations being purchased. Exactly what they do with that information would only be speculation at this point. But, it does allow "them" a certain amount of control now doesn't it? As someone posted earlier, perhaps they don't pick the numbers but instead choose whether or not the jackpot is going to be allowed to be won tonight. Depending on how you perceive that, wouldn't both of those factors have to be used to let the jackpot go??? :agree:

These lottery terminals are also the same machines that spit out those "quick picks". If that isn't enough to make you go hmmm....I don't know what would. Think about it, with 6/49 you have odds that are 1 in almost 14 million. From coast to coast, when a draw reaches a big jackpot and more tickets are sold, are they implying that no one got a ticket with those 6 numbers when the draw winds up being carried over??? Well, apparently that's exactly what they want us to believe. And believe we will because that 1 out of 14 million combinations was excluded from that draw! Argue it if you want, readers, but I think that's one dirty little secret they don't want us to know.

You asked me if it would make any difference if someone "figured out" the lottery system. I guess that depends to whom. For one, who wouldn't take full advantage of having some sort of inside knowledge and win a big jackpot...or two...or three? To the commission, I don't think it would matter one iota. Here's why. The jackpot published only represents the minimum amount to be won. If you check out your local lottery stats, they should tell you that the jackpot is actually only about 80% of the "Pool's Fund". That means the commission is always in a win-win situation. The "Prize Fund" is 47% of the sales! NOW do you think they care? :lol3:

WOW! I do tend to go on & on don't I? LOL Feel free to ask anything else you like and as always...GOOD LUCK!
 

bloubul

Member
DrTalk said:
Hi BlouBul! :thumb: Thank you for your warm welcome!

I began studying the lottery back when I was in high school. At that time, I was determined to uncover some great revelation that would give me the inside scoop and a huge player's advantage. I would literally go for days, looking over the list of winning numbers since the lottery here began, certain that I would, in time, discover a pattern(s) of some sort. Now, with the technology available to us, we can utilize software to analyze that very thing for us. Thus far, I have found a small advantage with 3 number combinations and how those certain 3 numbers seem to be drawn together more often than others. This, however, is not a profitable scheme. The amount of combinations I would have to purchase to win a lousy $10 is far from feasible. But, it's still an ongoing investigation for me on many levels. I'm not just looking for a way to win (if there is one), I'm also looking at the activity of the people who control these lotteries. This is important!

How about you? Any luck or wisdom you care to share?

Hi DrTalk
I wish to find an advantage to give me only 2 key numbers, and the rest will be easy. Even with the technology available to us, one is not sure that the selections are correct. If there will ever be a “PROGRAM / SYSTEM” that spit out the correct selections, it will be killed so fast that nobody will ever know about it.
But tonight I’m going to push my luck on our PowerBall worth R50M.
The greatness of this BB is that although we live in different countries, we can still exchange information; sometimes it might not be practical and visa versa

BlouBul :cool:
 

DrTalk

Member
bloubul said:
Hi DrTalk
I wish to find an advantage to give me only 2 key numbers, and the rest will be easy. Even with the technology available to us, one is not sure that the selections are correct. If there will ever be a “PROGRAM / SYSTEM” that spit out the correct selections, it will be killed so fast that nobody will ever know about it.
But tonight I’m going to push my luck on our PowerBall worth R50M.
The greatness of this BB is that although we live in different countries, we can still exchange information; sometimes it might not be practical and visa versa

BlouBul :cool:

Hi BlouBul,

I'm not quite sure I know what you mean when you say you want "2 key numbers". Can you please elaborate?

Yes, I agree this BB is great! I'm so glad I found it. If the cliche is true; "Two heads are better than one", then a forum full of hungry minds is a gold mine!

Because of the claim by any lottery that the results are truly random makes it very difficult for our brains to comprehend that. In the 3 dimensional world we live in, we only know certain certainties such as something having a beginning, a middle & an end. It's like trying to truly comprehend infinity. We can express it as a mathematical equation, but can our human/mortal brains really "know" what infinity is?

Call me crazy, but something within keeps driving me in this effort to "find the answers" as it applies to lotteries. There has to be more to it than randomness. I don't know why, but that's what I feel.

Dr Talk
 

blitzed

Member
hiya bloubul & DrTalk,

posted link is wrong:
http://crazynuts.hollosite.com/lottery_spreadsheets/bloubul

should be a #hash instead of a /slash...I programmed a redirect to go to the proper spot:
http://crazynuts.hollosite.com/lottery_spreadsheets#bloubul

DrTalk, some pretty wild stories ya posted heh! in a casino, slotmachines near the main entrances are sometimes rigged for payouts of some sort more often, so as people enter the casino they are greeted with the bells & whistles....also I've read before that all the sounds are an effort to affect the mind with a happy mood, happy musical chords & notes are directed at players so they keep feeding the machines.

later,
blitzed:bounce2:
 

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