Hurricanes

mirage

Member
Ok Brad, post 3rd debate of presidential candidates. Just to clarify, if Kerry wins by a margin but Bush contests the results or something, somehow succeeds and end result is Bush is sitting as "president" for a 2nd term, I win the bet? That the bet is over who ends up president after the Nov. 2004 election, correct? :dizzy: :)
 

Brad

Member
Well now, interesting you think it'll be that close, I think there will be no need for a recount this time. But if Bush steals the election again I'm willing to send you a can of Anheuser-Bush (dish water :sick: ), think of it as a watered down bet then ... :D

It'll be fitting for many reasons, one is that the Budweiser trademark is deemed to have been stolen from Budweis. This dispute is still before the courts. If by slim chance GWD wins without a recount then we're back to MooseHead ... what do you think ? ;)



btw Budvar is a superior brew ... sometimes it's available through LCBO if you'd like to try it
 

nipsirc

Member
IMHO

BUSH would win hands down !

There are many factors WHY he would repeat as President.

Even those soldiers who he got sent to war and some got killed would ironically still vote for him.

If I was an American, I would both for him too.

Just MHO
 

Brad

Member
Maybe Marshall M was right ...

I don't put too much stock into polls however this one is a little different which makes it more iteresting than the usual election stuff.

Ppl in 10 different countries were asked if they could, who'd they vote for. 8 of 10 countries voted against Bush. The reason I say it in that fashion is that they were not necessarily pro Kerry but they were definitely anti Bush. Canada voted anti GWD btw. One other aspect mentioned was that lot of ppl felt they oughta have a say in the election since US foreign policies have such global impact.

So watch out Big Brother ... the World is watching closely :eek: ... :D


now how does 'Media is the Message' fit into all of this? :notme:



PS funny stuff Karnac :agree:
 

mirage

Member
(Originally posted by Brad)

Well now, interesting you think it'll be that close, I think there will be no need for a recount this time. But if Bush steals the election again I'm willing to send you a can of Anheuser-Bush (dish water), think of it as a watered down bet then ...

It'll be fitting for many reasons, one is that the Budweiser trademark is deemed to have been stolen from Budweis. This dispute is still before the courts. If by slim chance GWD wins without a recount then we're back to MooseHead ... what do you think?


What if "close", "no need for a recount", and "steals the election" are either the same, or uncertain? :clown: Then I will be needing something stronger than beer.... :dizzy: (Just kidding) ;)

Interesting info about Budweiser/beer trivia. A Bud or a Moose is fine by me.
 

Karnac

Member
Oh.Oh.....

Bush Lawyer Anticipates Delay in Tally

By Jo Becker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A07


President Bush's top campaign lawyer said yesterday that the winner of next month's presidential vote may not be known for "days or weeks" after Election Day if the contest is close.

Experts predict a large number of absentee ballots will be cast, which could take time to count. For the first time nationwide, voters whose names do not appear on the rolls will be allowed to cast "provisional ballots," which will be counted only after a post-Election Day review determines their eligibility.

In addition, some battleground states count overseas military ballots received after Election Day as long as they are postmarked before Nov. 3. In Florida, for instance, military ballots received through Nov. 12 are counted.

Tom Josefiak, the Bush-Cheney campaign's general counsel, said he worries that the uncertainty caused by potential delays could undermine confidence in the outcome. "If it's a close election in any one state, it may be days or weeks before we know who actually is the winner," he said. "I hope that doesn't happen.

Josefiak's comments came as most national polls show Bush and Democrat John F. Kerry in a dead heat. Four years ago, a similarly close race between Bush and Vice President Al Gore deadlocked in Florida and produced a 36-day whirlwind of lawsuits as Democrats sought to recount votes and Republicans pushed to stop while Bush was ahead.

Democratic National Committee spokeswoman Jenny Backus denounced Josefiak's comment. "It seems like the Republicans want people to somehow think that the results they see on election night aren't accurate, which is a far cry from where they were in 2000," she said. "Maybe they think they're going to be behind."

During a conference call with reporters, Josefiak and Bush-Cheney campaign manager Ken Mehlman said that the Democratic legal strategy to keep third-party presidential candidate Ralph Nader off the ballot is aimed at disenfranchising overseas military voters, who may be more favorable toward.

Mehlman charged that "in target states . . . Democrats, led by the Kerry campaign, have waited until the last minute" to file lawsuits to keep Nader off the ballot. "The effect of this litigation has been to prevent state and local elections officials from printing and mailing ballots overseas," he said. Mehlman noted that in 2000 Democrats fought to disqualify overseas military ballots in Florida.

Bob Bauer, the DNC's national counsel for voter protection, called Mehlman's charge against Kerry a "shameful accusation that is utterly without merit."

Mehlman pointed to Pennsylvania as a case study, but Bauer said that the court there threw Nader off the ballot for good reason, citing thousands of fraudulent signatures including cartoon characters Mickey Mouse and Fred Flintstone.

"Nobody is conspiring against any class of voters by seeking to have the law upheld," Bauer said. "And to the extent there are issues around this Nader effort, the Republicans and their henchmen who funded the effort to get him on the ballot bear the responsibility."
 

Brad

Member
Here we go again ... :dang:

C'MON AMERICANS!! GET OUT AND VOTE!! So you don't have to put up with this criminal BS again!!



Ok ... I'm off the stump ... anybody else wanna step up? :dizzy:
 

gsobier

Member
:lol:...its like this in politics everywhere... ...they are all liars... ...elect the one who lies the least...
Brad said:
Here we go again ... :dang:

C'MON AMERICANS!! GET OUT AND VOTE!! So you don't have to put up with this criminal BS again!!



Ok ... I'm off the stump ... anybody else wanna step up? :dizzy:
 

Brad

Member
You nailed it on the head George. For once I'd like to see a truly democratic election where the candidates come from the ranks of ordinary ppl (read not mega millionaires) ... maybe then we'd experience leadership in tune with most ppl and not just the top 1 or 2 percent. And I must pre-emptively say NO! I'm not a communist!! heh

As is stands now you gotta have the bucks (or the biggest gun) to get to the top positions :rolleyes:
 

gsobier

Member
...sigh, it boils down to the haves:devil: and have nots:bawl:...
Brad said:
You nailed it on the head George. For once I'd like to see a truly democratic election where the candidates come from the ranks of ordinary ppl (read not mega millionaires) ... maybe then we'd experience leadership in tune with most ppl and not just the top 1 or 2 percent. And I must pre-emptively say NO! I'm not a communist!! heh

As is stands now you gotta have the bucks (or the biggest gun) to get to the top positions :rolleyes:
 

Brad

Member
gsobier said:
...sigh, it boils down to the haves:devil: and have nots:bawl:...
Well ... I'm kinda oversimplifying (just a tad) ... but the jist is there



Funny thing happened to me on the way to a Lotto Forum ... fell into a political morass :lol:
 

mirage

Member
Hi there Brad,

'member our little bet? Well, let's just call it a sportsman's (or to be "PC" about this, "sportsperson's") bet...
No need to package up the moose. I'll go down to my local beer store to see what's on the shelf (maybe some Creemore, who knows?), and get well and truly drunk... :bawl:

John Kerry's just left to make his concession speech...:cry:

Even though the votes are not completely tallied, it sure looks like voting wise it is a win for GW. This is a bittersweet victory for me at best. By all that is reasonable, John Kerry should have been the victor in this election. :(

Now, if only I could be as good at prognostication in the lottery as in U.S. elections...;)
 

Brad

Member
Hi Mirage,

my gut feeling was off on most counts, so I owe you a brewski ... how do you want it delivered? :dizzy:
 

Brad

Member
Hehe ... we're simulposting here.

You're very practical and I appreciate that, maybe some day I can buy you a cold one, I just might join you in a virtual drunk for now ... I feel like crying in my beer too :bawl:



Cheers :beer:
 

mirage

Member
Brad said:
Hi Mirage,

my gut feeling was off on most counts, so I owe you a brewski ... how do you want it delivered? :dizzy:

This would be difficult. Or, let me think about this.

I don't think LT would go to the length of establishing my whereabouts, or be into forwarding a can of brewski. Against board rules, etc. Like I said, sportsperson's bet only.

Tell you what? I don't think I've seen you posting any numbers recently. Take the money you would be spending on buying and delivery of a can of select beer and pick some good numbers for the lottery of your choice.

Maybe you can share a beer with me on line sometime? :beer:

Cheers!
 

cleopatra

Member
mirage wrote:
my sister is a senior staff member working in a popular downtown bookstore in Toronto. Part of her job is to be cognizant of cultural and political shifts. She says American tourists are amazed at the cultural and politically oriented books available in Canada that are either unavailable or forever on back order in the U.S. (i.e., at Barnes and Noble, large U.S. chain) and which mysteriously never become available.
That is very odd. I hear the opposite from Canadians who visit and live in the US. They are stunned that they can find pro-Bush or anti-Kerry books in US bookstores. One couple told me that Unfit For Command by the Swift Boat Veterans was no where to be found in Ottawa. Another told me that their city library refused to order Unfit for Command when he asked for it.

But what do you expect from a country that bans its citizens from watching the Fox News Channel....

A large number of U.S. visitors are asking about immigration to Canada.
:lol: :lol: The loony left seethes and threatens to move to Canada when they don't go away, but they never act out on their promise. ;) This could be the first time since the early '70's (Vietnam draft dodgers) that Canada attracts more US immigrants than vice versa.

Maybe Canada could make a memorial for these whiny liberals, just like they were going to make a monument for the "heroic" Vietnam draft dodgers in that town in BC. :heul:
 

mirage

Member
Cleopatra,

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to you because you have this very annoying habit of not honouring any idea that doesn't fit your insanely, over-intellectualized, narrow point of view.

My sister is no dummy. She knows of what she speaks. In terms of what literary material is available where, maybe it cuts both ways, I don't know. We also don't know what the next 4 years of George W. Bush in power will bring. Hopefully he will mellow out. Somehow I don't think so.

I happen to have met a number of former draft dodgers over the years. Many of them became professionals, (teachers, professors, engineers, etc. ) making Ontario, Canada their home. In fact in the late 60's and 70's I believe the brain drain was Americans coming in this direction - north. Although a hard decision in many cases, these men who really valued life and their own lives in particular (and why not??) decided life as an expatriot in a foreign land was preferable to being maimed, dead or insane.

On the other hand, I've also met a few men who actually fought in Vietnam. Each stated that the war experience, maybe wars in general but the Vietnam war in particular, was completely beyond the human imagination of any one who had not fought in that war.

The degree of real fear and horror that they and their fellows were subjected to, especially in the literal jungle of Vietnam, at night, where the nights were blacker than black, and consisted of endless, fear-drenched and disorienting circumstances with an invisible but ever-present, ruthless, cunning enemy who were capable of materializing in swarms of multiples, out of impossible to see spider holes in the black darkness in a fraction of a second, of this you have no idea...

A former acquaintance, an educated and highly intelligent man, was in charge of a whole squadron of troops during his tour of duty in Vietnam. He said while in the jungle he didn't sleep for a year, literally. One of his biggest challenges was not losing his mind. Years later he was proud to say that not one of the men under his charge for that year was killed or seriously injured. Immediately following his Vietnam experience, he was bitter and sickened by his Country's policies - and decided to immigrate to Canada.

To kill a man or a young boy at gun point is a terrible thing, is an understatement, even when done in self defence. The other Vietnam Vet I met about 8 years ago. He was a Canadian when he enlisted and still is. He joined the Navy specifically to go to Vietnam, and went to the Far East working on a submarine. He was assigned the duty of getting supplies and men into and out of Vietnam during the height of the war.

After his stint in the military, he became a middle level Canadian government officer. Years later, after 3 broken marriages and on-again, off-again, alcoholism, he had to face up to the fact that his mind had been shattered, partially due to the stress of his decades ago military experience and those horrible, horrible couple of years in which he had to venture into the jungles of Vietnam under cover of night. He said one of the worst memories was that he killed a 12 year old Vietnamese kid in the jungle at point blank range. It was literally a matter of his own life or the kid's. He happened to be the quicker shot. The kid was shot in the face. The image still haunts him. After decades of nightmares and flashbacks, he is now on permanent disability. He has a network of Vietnam vet buddies he keeps in touch with because they are the only ones who understand. Those who haven't served, do not understand. He says, it's the truth. Nobody else is capable of understanding.

My own father served in WWII. He volunteered for the war as a mere boy of 17. He may have lied about his age. He was eager to defend his country and become a real man. (I am the product of his 2nd marriage). My father experienced numerous close friends being blown to bits right by his side not more than a few feet away on many occasions, while he somehow miraculously escaped serious physical injury himself. He was lucky physically but his mind was scarred. To the day he died (and he died an early death by modern standards - I would put as one of the causes of his early demise being the fact that his "nerves were shot" - a hidden casuality of war), he was unable to eat or even tolerate looking at certain foods because they reminded him of human remains. He experienced depression, moodiness, fits of rage and panic.

These facts are part of the reality of war. The reason why I cite the above examples of the human toll and consequences of war
is that it's all very well and fine for you to be an academic or an armchair hawk, preaching the righteousness of the "liberation" of a land of people on the other side of the globe by the use of weapons of destruction, so long as somebody else is doing the fighting, but unless you enlist for active service yourself, you are a hypocrite. Those who have fought wars know that war is extremely serious business, and should never, ever, be undertaken unless it is a measure of last resort.
 

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