How about a colored lottery?

[Rob50]

The idea came an evening shooting pool. The balls are numbered and colored, except the cue ball, but we can do without it. How about a lottery 3/15 with billiard balls? And how about a lottery 3/15 with only colored billiard balls? Finally how about our classic 6/49 lottery, but with colored balls instead of numbered balls?

My point is, and there is where I would like to start the discussion:

Does this substitution of numbers with colors change the very nature of the lottery? If not (that's what I think) what happens to all the exotic theories of odds and evens, decades and sums, etc?

 

[peter]

Bingo balls are colored, in 649, you would have to divide it into 7 groups of 7 some how a blue 23 would'nt make a lick of difference.

 

[Rob50]

Sorry Peter!

You did not get the point. I am not saying color the balls like in the bingo and forget about 7 groups (yeah like 5 decades!). Think out of the box.

49 different colors, one for each ball and.... no numbers at all!

Can you calculate what would be the sum?!
Can you tell me please how many odd and how many even?

Do you see now the lick of difference? But then, is that really a difference? This is my question?

Please, read it again:


Does this substitution of numbers with colors change the very nature of the lottery? If not (that's what I think) what happens to all the exotic theories of odds and evens, decades and sums, etc?

 

[Shanga]

Re: Sorry Peter!

I do not think that all the statistics regarding odds, evens etc would really change. All one would have to do is to substitue the colors with numbers while doing their own private analysis, and the statistics should follow an expected pattern.

This is a real interesting observation that you have presented, and trying to fully resolve it in my mind keeps causing the brain to lock up and go to reboot mode. The problem I have is that if I numbered the balls differently to you, then we would have a totally different set of statistics. And my 1,2,3,4,5,6 may not be as uncommon among those drawn, as your ,1,2,3,4,5,6.

If one kept stats on the colors alone, then I am sure that a trend would emerge, where a certain combination of colors may stand out above the rest. you may find for instance, that the red ball may have been drawn most often after the blue ball, etc.

I can't figure out though how the sum could be determined, to arrive at what combination accounts for the highest within the overall set.

Very interested in the thoughts of others on this.

You did not get the point. I am not saying color the balls like in the bingo and forget about 7 groups (yeah like 5 decades!). Think out of the box.

49 different colors, one for each ball and.... no numbers at all!

Can you calculate what would be the sum?!
Can you tell me please how many odd and how many even?

Do you see now the lick of difference? But then, is that really a difference? This is my question?

Please, read it again:


Does this substitution of numbers with colors change the very nature of the lottery? If not (that's what I think) what happens to all the exotic theories of odds and evens, decades and sums, etc?

 

[shirazbai]

To perform any kind of draw analysis, you would have to convert the colours back into numbers. You will then have arrived back to modern times. Analysis without numbers does not exist. Numbers were invented millenia ago for a reason. To abandon them within one's reasoning of an event would be committing evolutionary suicide.

So, Rob50, what brand of liquid enlightenment were you having that night?

 

[thornc]

Ha, now I see where you want to arrive!

Ok I agree with you, it doesn't matter wha t is used in a draw, people will always transform it into a different base system and analise that!

Be it poker cards, poker dice, bingo numbers, lotto numbers, rabits, cats, dogs, radio waves, solar waves, atoms, sub-atomic particles, etc.... As shirazbai points out, humans will convert it to numbers and analise those for conclusions!

And we do it everywhere everytime!
From the pizza store guy, to the weather forecast, passing by the lotto players/gamblers and the stock market!

 

[Rob50]

Well Shanga!

Shanga you have gone closer than anyone to the point!

You others, if you think that the numbers are there to make it simpler you all are wrong (and Shirazbai I am as sober as the day I was born!).

Do you think that the Lotto Corporations all over the world want to make it simpler? Oh, yes that's why they put numbers on the balls, that some clever-using-number-for millenia-guy has the life easy and hit the jackpot using a laptop and a software called EXCEL.

Think a little bit. Whatever resists and still is true with only colors, is the only thing true about the lotto statistics. The numbers are there for the joy of software sellers.

Anyways, I just tried.

 

[shirazbai]

Re: Well Shanga!

Think a little bit. Whatever resists and still is true with only colors, is the only thing true about the lotto statistics.

Rob50, you used the word "statistics" again. Statistics do not exist without numbers. It's not rocket science.

Oh, yes that's why they put numbers on the balls, that some clever-using-number-for millenia-guy has the life easy and hit the jackpot using a laptop and a software called EXCEL.

I never claimed to have won anything, let alone a Jackpot. Numbers were not invented by the lottery corporation, they were invented by yours and mine distant ancestors to make life easier by keeping track of surplus harvest and livestock supplies using clay token units. We've been stuck with those digits ever since.

No matter how hard you try to get away from using numbers, especially when you want to talk "statistics", it is virtually impossible. Perhaps try explaining your theory a little better, without using words generally associated with numbers.

P.S. My "liquid enlightenment" statement was a joke, since you mentioned you were playing pool at the time. Hence I used the universal "wink" at the end. If you took it to heart, I appologize.

 

[iago31416]

I believe Rob50's revelation is that the probabilities associated with a lotto draw (say 6/49) are independent of any labelling scheme - and he is right. When calculating the probability of winning the 6/49 jackpot, we count the number of winning combinations and divide by the number of all possible combinations. It doesn't matter whether or not we are counting numbered balls or coloured balls or even animals found in the zoo - as long as we have 49 distinct objects, the probabilities will be the same.

Thus, the use of statistical analysis in determining winning combinations is a fruitless task - although it gives you something to do on a rainy day.

/i have a stats degree
//even though i can do the math, i still play the lotto because, who knows, i might win

 

[powerball]

Excellent posts by Rob50 & iago31416. I have noticed that the intelligence level of this forum has increased recently.

If lottery players understand that picking 6 of 49 different numbers is just like picking six of forty-nine different COLOURS, they may finally realize the silliness of sum analysis, odd/even, decades and all the other useless predictive systems. A lot of people couldn't comprehend the fact that 1-2-3-4-5-6 has the same chance of being drawn as their "best bet", but if they think of colours, they can understand that Red-White-Blue-Black-Green-Yellow has the same chance of being drawn as any other combination. Unless you consider it a fun hobby, using numerical (or colour) analysis to predict the next draw is a waste of time.

Thus, the use of statistical analysis in determining winning combinations is a fruitless task ...

 

[thornc]

Excellent posts by Rob50 & iago31416. I have noticed that the intelligence level of this forum has increased recently.

So basically the older members were stupid! Thanks for that!
You just gained the honor of being the first member I put on my ignore list!

Heck I don't discuss that every possible combination on a draw has the same chance of being drawned!
What I do say is that you can do better overall if you avoid "weird" low count combinations. For example if you know a bag contains 5 red balls, 3 green and 2 white. Which ball would you bet that you would get on a single draw?

As for predictions, the only thing I have to say is that I have seen much more random things being accurately predicted than lotto. Things with far more variables and loose constrains than m finite dependent variables with a value from 1 to a very finite N.


I will agree with everyone on two things spending money on systems/programs that claim to predict the lottery is a waste of money!

 

[hot4]

So basically the older members were stupid! Thanks for that!
You just gained the honor of being the first member I put on my ignore list!
<snip>

Don't bother thornc.
Perhaps they are not intelligent, only a bit lazy to search for a good lotto strategy. The problem is that they have another boring characteristic: they don't want other players to search for it

As we say in portuguese: não f... nem saem de cima

 

[peter]

Re: Sorry Peter!

You did not get the point. I am not saying color the balls like in the bingo and forget about 7 groups (yeah like 5 decades!). Think out of the box.

49 different colors, one for each ball and.... no numbers at all!

Can you calculate what would be the sum?!
Can you tell me please how many odd and how many even?

Do you see now the lick of difference? But then, is that really a difference? This is my question?

Please, read it again:


Does this substitution of numbers with colors change the very nature of the lottery? If not (that's what I think) what happens to all the exotic theories of odds and evens, decades and sums, etc?

After RE reading your post, I must admit changing to 49 different colors poses a very interesting scenario, with no numbers to analize The only pattern to discuss would be trends of colors. Very interesting.

 

[peter]

Excellent posts by Rob50 & iago31416. I have noticed that the intelligence level of this forum has increased recently.

I think certainly we could have a discussion without trying to be insulting.
As with any discussion some will agree and some will disagree, thats why it's called a discussion. so lets agree, to disagree.
Food for thought... what are the chances of a 5 time convicted drunk of drinking and driving and being convicted again.
Is it 100%, or 50%, we don't really know, but we have a pretty good idea based on past history.

 

[peter]

Just bringing this to the front.

 

[Beaker]

Excellent posts by Rob50 & iago31416. I have noticed that the intelligence level of this forum has increased recently.

<snip<

... but the level of winning has decreased.

 

[peter]

... but the level of winning has decreased.

As Forest Gump would say " Stupid is, as Stupid does"

 

[Rob50]

It is not my intention to insult anybody, but it is my right to express my opinoins and/or ideas. If they are somewhat different, or completely different from some other's ideas it is only to demonstrate how colorful this world is.

I must point out that iago and power have totally undrestood the idea (maybe they were familiar with it before), I must say also that iago has given an excellent concise formulation.

I would like to add some more stuff. There are two essential differences between a "colored balls" lottery and a "numbered balls" one:
1. The numbers have a natural order, the colors don't (or at least as obvious).
2. The numbers have a value, the colors don't

Unfortunately "value" and "order", contrary to the popular belief, instead of making it clearer and more analyzable, cover the simple core with sophisticated seem-to-be-correct statistical statements about odds and evens, sums and lengths, announcers and followers etc., all of this going to the benefit of amateur-lottery-book-writers and software makers. Now here it comes the crucial point: Is it essential for the lottery the fact that the numbers posses a value, or that they can be easily ordered?" If you think a little bit about, it is not at all difficult to understand that the numbers for the balls in the lottery are merely labels, the role of which is only to distitnguish them from each other. Nobody will state such stupidities like the ball number 1 is ten times smaller than the ball number 10, or that you can split the ball number 41 in two balls with number 21 and 20. But, no matter it is a stupidity of the same rank, for so many people the statement the combination 1-2-3-4-5-6 is less probable than the combination 1-12-28-35-41-19, because 1-2-3-4-5-6 contains numbers from only one decade and in the other combination all the decades are represented, sounds like the acme of the statistics.

Well, try to get rid of all prejudices related to the numbers (as a matter of fact "balls numbers") and start thinking in colors, or other labels you might prefer (just make sure you have 49 different labels). Use numbers to analyze the labels, if you still are able to find a statistics stick with it. It is the only valid statistics for the lottery.

The average of 10 and 20 is 15. The average of ball #10 and the ball #20 does not make any senses, and God save us from those who think that it is the ball #15.

 

[peter]

It is not my intention to insult anybody, but it is my right to express my opinoins and/or ideas. If they are somewhat different, or completely different from some other's ideas it is only to demonstrate how colorful this world is.
.

 

[Beaker]

<snip>

Well, try to get rid of all prejudices related to the numbers (as a matter of fact "balls numbers") and start thinking in colors, or other labels you might prefer (just make sure you have 49 different labels). Use numbers to analyze the labels, if you still are able to find a statistics stick with it. It is the only valid statistics for the lottery.

The average of 10 and 20 is 15. The average of ball #10 and the ball #20 does not make any senses, and God save us from those who think that it is the ball #15.

You must be a teacher.

I don't have prejudices related to the numbers. I only speculate on interesting empirical events, of various terms, regarding the history of the draws. Sometimes they hit sometimes they don't

Good luck