Election Fever
- Thread starter Sheba
- Start date
Dennis Bassboss
Member
Exactly Beaker...Somebody has to do something about this country ....I'm really thinking about it...Jumping into the politic arena that is...I'm tired of watching these showroom dummies fooling us all the time...Beaker said:I suspect this question will come - and not only to Quebec.
Dennis Bassboss
Member
I'm affraid that this government will last longer than what you expect Peter...The NDP will join with the liberals...in the house....This will give them the majority they couldn't get last night...peter said:
Paul Martin still has a lot to explain about the sponserships scandals...Hopefully the other party will watch for it carefully..
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Dennis Bassboss
Member
I would be good in this(politic)....I can sell a refrigerator to an Eskimo and everybody loves me...And my English has improved a lot...It is better than Gilles Duceppe's English... 
Got to find a name for my future party.....Let's see...
I need a symbol...
something that represent liberty...
like a bird...
Birdy numnum...
Got to find a name for my future party.....Let's see...
I need a symbol...
something that represent liberty...
like a bird...
Birdy numnum...
Dennis Bassboss
Member
Well...Welll..Well...after looking at the total seats this morning they might need that independant seat as well to achieve a majority...Getting interesting here...A single independant might hold the balance of power...Dennis Bassboss said:I'm affraid that this government will last longer than what you expect Peter...The NDP will join with the liberals...in the house....This will give them the majority they couldn't get last night...
Paul Martin still has a lot to explain about the sponserships scandals...Hopefully the other party will watch for it carefully..
i would love to have those from the east explain to me why they did vote Liberal.Dennis Bassboss said:How about that...People like to be screwed by the Liberals....People must be nuts...insane...or uneducated???
It is indecent to have these crooked clowns in power again...
I think that people are affraid of changes in their everyday life...
Hard to swallow it.....But I knew it would happen again tonite...
I told you about it a while ago....
Sheeehsss......
At least in Québec we saw a majority vote for the Bloc...
Everything you said Dennis is 100% correct.
Are we in Alberta and Quebec, the only ones to see this.
PLSE PEOPLE explain why did you vote liberal after getting screwed . WHY!!!!
Dennis Bassboss
Member
You tell that one to George Bush Sheba....Sheba said:
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Nothing which is morally wrong can ever be politically right.
--Charles S. Robb
If you call them.. They will come!
Sheba__
~~~
Everybody's Got a Dream...JACKPOT!
--------------------------------------------------------------
06/30/04
I am from Ontario Peter and I voted Liberal. Reason why is Stephen Harper's Conservatives are not the new Conservatives, but the old right wing alliance with a new name. Regardless of what Harper says they are anything but moderate. In fact I think they are very extreme right from the views expressed by Harper and his back benchers.
I know Albertans are upset the Liberals beat out the Alliance again, but the question you have to ask is why was Stephen Harper not appealing to Ontarians. Stephen Harper was singing the same old song Mean Mike Harris sang when he was in power. In fact when he came to Ontario on his campaign, he praised Mike Harris for the job he had done. That was the stupidest thing he could have said here. Mean Mike was elected on the platform of the "common sense revolution". Where the government cut and gutted every social program and sold off parts of profitable crown corporations to down size government expences and to make Ontario a better place to live. Similar to how Ralph Klein got into power. The problem is Ontario wasn't a better place to live after Harris and Eves came to power.
Harris gutted everything saying it was for our better future and he gave alot of tax cuts to big corporations and the top 10% of society. He also got alot of people killed or sick in Walkerton when he gutted provincial water testing facilities. Harris realizing he has blood on his hands steps down and in comes Earnie Eaves. Eaves goes and privatizes parts of our electricity saying it will create a more competitive market and cheaper prices. Electricity prices skyrocketed. Eaves capped the electricity of consumers at 4 cents per kilowatt hour saying the province would pay the difference with a 550 million dollar slush fund 3 months later. Also he passed a bill at the same time stating power companies could not cut power off to single moms during the the cold winter months until spring. Eaves did this because he was going to call a provincial election in the following fall. Fall comes around, and reports come out that we are now a billion in the hole because electricity prices have skyrocketed after deregulation and that 550 million fund wasn't nearly enough.
Consequently reports arise that Eaves's ministers got 20 thousand dollar vacations to Europe before they deregulated electricity from Energy companies just before they passed deregulation in Ontario. Eaves appointed his own ethics minister who said nothing wrong had been done and those ministers just resigned and that was the end of it. Eaves said he would not commission an inquest or any other public inquiry on the issue.
Harris and Eaves and his conservatives lost the fall election to Dalton Mcguinty a Liberal. Now Dalton broke an election promise and raised taxes and health care premiums. People were very upset at this. But Dalton raised taxes because Harris, Eaves and their common sense revolution left us bleeding 6 billion a year in deficit. He also appointed party cronies to ceo's and heads of crown corporations. The Ontario Hydro exec had an expense account. She put 6 fitness club memberships on it as well as limosine costs to bring her kids to and from school as well as a severance package in the millions. Harris took a crown corporation of Ontario Hydro which had a monopoly and ran it down so much that it will bleed half a billion over the next 2 years.Now he tried to fix it by bringing in a dream team of nuclear specialists from the states and paid them over 40 million. They got paid and didn't fix anything.
Also Eaves realized he was bleeding a deficit in the billions and didn't tell anyone. He just tried to sell off more crown corporations to cover it up. He tried selling off our provincially owned LLCBO (liquor and alcohol board of Ontario) to his Bay Street buddies who made donations to his party. Just before the provincial election he tried to rail road through 4 private hospitals so he could get their campaign donations. This was stopped by court action.
Now you ask why we Ontarians didn't vote for Harper? We listened to his election platform which sounded vaguely familiar to Mr. Harris and looked at what Ralph Klein was doing in Alberta.
The New Conservatives did well in the first few weeks because people were angry at the Sponsorship scandal and Dalton Mcguinty for raising taxes. But as the election wore on we realized this is not the progressive conservatives of old who were more moderate but the Canadian Alliance who are very extreme right. The first blunder that caught everyone's attention, Ralph Klein on the 6 o'clock news saying he was gonna introduce new health care reforms 2 days after the election saying they were going to violate the Canadian Health Act. The Second Blunder was Harpers tax cuts which he was shouting left and right. His tax cut gives 3000-6000 for people making $100,000 to$200,000 dollars a year and $0 for people making $30,000 and under. Third and fourth blunder Harpers stance on abortion, and bilingualism. Harper says he won't change health care but in the debate he says why should we care if health care is administered privately or publicly as long as the service is good. Fifth Blunder another Alliance candiate Wright who is the Conservative's Justice Minister. He shows up on the 6'oclock news the Friday before the election in a film he made a year ago saying "the hell with the courts, if they come to conclusions that are contrary to our right wing views we will just shoot it down with the Non-withstanding clause."
A big issue in Toronto is the same as other big cities. Funding for infrastructure to improve big cities. Harper's response to Mayor Miller asking about his stance on funding for cities? " Cities are just a small special interest group, I am more concerned about funding to farmers and rurual areas."
Now the Liberals are crooks, but the Harris conservatives made the Liberals look like choir boys. Also the conservative candidates running in Toronto were the same Harris conservatives who put us 6 billion in deficit a year, killed people in Walkerton, and deregulated our electricity. The same guys Harper praised when he came through Ontario. And the Harris conservatives were supposed to be the moderate branch of the right wing. Harper didn't address any important issues to Ontarians. He just bashed Martin, McGuinty and talked about how great Harris is.
You see we Ontarians saw Harper as a Liar, and also as a extreme right wing candidate who would kill health care, give tax cuts that benefit the top 10% of the population, legislate morality, spend 7 billion on military to send Canadians into future conflicts that the US decided was good for them.
The last knock against Harper, is that he would be a yes man for Bush. The United States are our friends and neighbors, but the last thing we need is a guy that is a lap dog selling out our interests regardless of if it would be good or bad for us for a campaign donation as Prime Minister.
Kiyoto and the environment was another issue which Harper goes against the grain on.
Finally Harper would have not been good for Ontario. Alot of his ideas and funding cuts would have hurt Ontario economically. His stance on funding for cities is just an example. We would have had one Ontario cabinet minister from Ontario also looking out for our interests. The rest would have been from the Alberta and the west.
Also Harpers anti-Quebec stance doesn't fly in the east. To us French Canadians are just Canadians like the rest of us. Harper tries to divide and alienate Canadians and pits them against each other. Thats why the Conservatives had poor showings in Atlantic Canada and Quebec. He insults them on national television.
These are the reasons why Ontario didn't vote for the Agressive Conservatives who are not main stream. There vision of Canada would have encouraged intolerance, legislated morality, taken away our constitutional rights, imposed right wing views on us, killed health care, given tax cuts to the top 10% and screwed the rest. He would have also spent billions on weapons systems and sent us into any conflict the US wanted. Harper would have also weakened Canada by taking away central federal powers. Harper would have also put us back into deficit spending like Brian Mulroney. When Mulroney came to power our national debt was around 100 billion. When Mulroney left he put our national debt at over 500 billion and left us with a 70 billion dollar deficit a year.
Everyone was upset at sponsorship scandal. But the last 11 years under Liberal government hasn't been bad for Canada. The economy has been good, employment and interest rates have been low, and Martin has cut our deficit from the Mulroney years in half to about 44 billion a year. Deficit spending is one reason why our dollar is so weak against the other world currencies. In 1970 our dollar was higher than the US dollar. Now its 75% of its value.
If you want reasons for why the conservatives lost, just look to Ralph Klein and Wright who were alliance members and now go under the new name of Conservative. They did the most harm to Harper. Ontarians and the rest of Canadians thank them actually. At least Klein and Wright were honest. The same can't be said for Harper.
This wasn't meant to offend Alberta or any westerners or anyone who voted conservative. Peter asked why Ontario went Liberal and I gave him some background and reasons why Ontarians didn't like Harper.
POLITICS IS LIKE SEX, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT YOURSELF.
I am from Ontario Peter and I voted Liberal. Reason why is Stephen Harper's Conservatives are not the new Conservatives, but the old right wing alliance with a new name. Regardless of what Harper says they are anything but moderate. In fact I think they are very extreme right from the views expressed by Harper and his back benchers.
I know Albertans are upset the Liberals beat out the Alliance again, but the question you have to ask is why was Stephen Harper not appealing to Ontarians. Stephen Harper was singing the same old song Mean Mike Harris sang when he was in power. In fact when he came to Ontario on his campaign, he praised Mike Harris for the job he had done. That was the stupidest thing he could have said here. Mean Mike was elected on the platform of the "common sense revolution". Where the government cut and gutted every social program and sold off parts of profitable crown corporations to down size government expences and to make Ontario a better place to live. Similar to how Ralph Klein got into power. The problem is Ontario wasn't a better place to live after Harris and Eves came to power.
Harris gutted everything saying it was for our better future and he gave alot of tax cuts to big corporations and the top 10% of society. He also got alot of people killed or sick in Walkerton when he gutted provincial water testing facilities. Harris realizing he has blood on his hands steps down and in comes Earnie Eaves. Eaves goes and privatizes parts of our electricity saying it will create a more competitive market and cheaper prices. Electricity prices skyrocketed. Eaves capped the electricity of consumers at 4 cents per kilowatt hour saying the province would pay the difference with a 550 million dollar slush fund 3 months later. Also he passed a bill at the same time stating power companies could not cut power off to single moms during the the cold winter months until spring. Eaves did this because he was going to call a provincial election in the following fall. Fall comes around, and reports come out that we are now a billion in the hole because electricity prices have skyrocketed after deregulation and that 550 million fund wasn't nearly enough.
Consequently reports arise that Eaves's ministers got 20 thousand dollar vacations to Europe before they deregulated electricity from Energy companies just before they passed deregulation in Ontario. Eaves appointed his own ethics minister who said nothing wrong had been done and those ministers just resigned and that was the end of it. Eaves said he would not commission an inquest or any other public inquiry on the issue.
Harris and Eaves and his conservatives lost the fall election to Dalton Mcguinty a Liberal. Now Dalton broke an election promise and raised taxes and health care premiums. People were very upset at this. But Dalton raised taxes because Harris, Eaves and their common sense revolution left us bleeding 6 billion a year in deficit. He also appointed party cronies to ceo's and heads of crown corporations. The Ontario Hydro exec had an expense account. She put 6 fitness club memberships on it as well as limosine costs to bring her kids to and from school as well as a severance package in the millions. Harris took a crown corporation of Ontario Hydro which had a monopoly and ran it down so much that it will bleed half a billion over the next 2 years.Now he tried to fix it by bringing in a dream team of nuclear specialists from the states and paid them over 40 million. They got paid and didn't fix anything.
Also Eaves realized he was bleeding a deficit in the billions and didn't tell anyone. He just tried to sell off more crown corporations to cover it up. He tried selling off our provincially owned LLCBO (liquor and alcohol board of Ontario) to his Bay Street buddies who made donations to his party. Just before the provincial election he tried to rail road through 4 private hospitals so he could get their campaign donations. This was stopped by court action.
Now you ask why we Ontarians didn't vote for Harper? We listened to his election platform which sounded vaguely familiar to Mr. Harris and looked at what Ralph Klein was doing in Alberta.
The New Conservatives did well in the first few weeks because people were angry at the Sponsorship scandal and Dalton Mcguinty for raising taxes. But as the election wore on we realized this is not the progressive conservatives of old who were more moderate but the Canadian Alliance who are very extreme right. The first blunder that caught everyone's attention, Ralph Klein on the 6 o'clock news saying he was gonna introduce new health care reforms 2 days after the election saying they were going to violate the Canadian Health Act. The Second Blunder was Harpers tax cuts which he was shouting left and right. His tax cut gives 3000-6000 for people making $100,000 to$200,000 dollars a year and $0 for people making $30,000 and under. Third and fourth blunder Harpers stance on abortion, and bilingualism. Harper says he won't change health care but in the debate he says why should we care if health care is administered privately or publicly as long as the service is good. Fifth Blunder another Alliance candiate Wright who is the Conservative's Justice Minister. He shows up on the 6'oclock news the Friday before the election in a film he made a year ago saying "the hell with the courts, if they come to conclusions that are contrary to our right wing views we will just shoot it down with the Non-withstanding clause."
A big issue in Toronto is the same as other big cities. Funding for infrastructure to improve big cities. Harper's response to Mayor Miller asking about his stance on funding for cities? " Cities are just a small special interest group, I am more concerned about funding to farmers and rurual areas."
Now the Liberals are crooks, but the Harris conservatives made the Liberals look like choir boys. Also the conservative candidates running in Toronto were the same Harris conservatives who put us 6 billion in deficit a year, killed people in Walkerton, and deregulated our electricity. The same guys Harper praised when he came through Ontario. And the Harris conservatives were supposed to be the moderate branch of the right wing. Harper didn't address any important issues to Ontarians. He just bashed Martin, McGuinty and talked about how great Harris is.
You see we Ontarians saw Harper as a Liar, and also as a extreme right wing candidate who would kill health care, give tax cuts that benefit the top 10% of the population, legislate morality, spend 7 billion on military to send Canadians into future conflicts that the US decided was good for them.
The last knock against Harper, is that he would be a yes man for Bush. The United States are our friends and neighbors, but the last thing we need is a guy that is a lap dog selling out our interests regardless of if it would be good or bad for us for a campaign donation as Prime Minister.
Kiyoto and the environment was another issue which Harper goes against the grain on.
Finally Harper would have not been good for Ontario. Alot of his ideas and funding cuts would have hurt Ontario economically. His stance on funding for cities is just an example. We would have had one Ontario cabinet minister from Ontario also looking out for our interests. The rest would have been from the Alberta and the west.
Also Harpers anti-Quebec stance doesn't fly in the east. To us French Canadians are just Canadians like the rest of us. Harper tries to divide and alienate Canadians and pits them against each other. Thats why the Conservatives had poor showings in Atlantic Canada and Quebec. He insults them on national television.
These are the reasons why Ontario didn't vote for the Agressive Conservatives who are not main stream. There vision of Canada would have encouraged intolerance, legislated morality, taken away our constitutional rights, imposed right wing views on us, killed health care, given tax cuts to the top 10% and screwed the rest. He would have also spent billions on weapons systems and sent us into any conflict the US wanted. Harper would have also weakened Canada by taking away central federal powers. Harper would have also put us back into deficit spending like Brian Mulroney. When Mulroney came to power our national debt was around 100 billion. When Mulroney left he put our national debt at over 500 billion and left us with a 70 billion dollar deficit a year.
Everyone was upset at sponsorship scandal. But the last 11 years under Liberal government hasn't been bad for Canada. The economy has been good, employment and interest rates have been low, and Martin has cut our deficit from the Mulroney years in half to about 44 billion a year. Deficit spending is one reason why our dollar is so weak against the other world currencies. In 1970 our dollar was higher than the US dollar. Now its 75% of its value.
If you want reasons for why the conservatives lost, just look to Ralph Klein and Wright who were alliance members and now go under the new name of Conservative. They did the most harm to Harper. Ontarians and the rest of Canadians thank them actually. At least Klein and Wright were honest. The same can't be said for Harper.
This wasn't meant to offend Alberta or any westerners or anyone who voted conservative. Peter asked why Ontario went Liberal and I gave him some background and reasons why Ontarians didn't like Harper.
POLITICS IS LIKE SEX, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT YOURSELF.
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Brad
Member
"Conservative platform will put government in deficit -- report "
This may provide some insights re: future budget balance, for those interested click here.
The main page has more items of possible interest.
Quote " ... the last 11 .... Martin has cut our deficit from the Mulroney years in half to about 44 billion a year."
I don't have the exact figures but think that Martin actually ran a surplus in last few years.
You make some very good points Godload, I especially like your closing statement
This may provide some insights re: future budget balance, for those interested click here.
The main page has more items of possible interest.
Quote " ... the last 11 .... Martin has cut our deficit from the Mulroney years in half to about 44 billion a year."
I don't have the exact figures but think that Martin actually ran a surplus in last few years.
You make some very good points Godload, I especially like your closing statement
Also Ontarians didn't vote for the Liberals because we were afraid of change. Change is inevitable. Growth is optional. Quebec and alot of people voted anything but Liberal out of anger. They didn't want the Liberals to have a majority again.
We Ontarians had plenty to be angry about, if not more after Dalton McGuinty broke his election promise to not to raise taxes.
We were angry but we woke up and looked at what Harper was trying to sell to us. What he was offering didn't appeal to Ontarians. He said he wasn't going to change health care but during the election he says why should we care how its administered privately or publicly. If you do nothing to stop privatization your passively allowing it to become a reality.
Harper I think was hoping everyone would remain focused on anger and not think about the issues. Thats why at every stop he mentions gun registry, and sponsorship scandal. Everyone who is angry the Liberals got in, mention that also. But how would voting in Harper have made things better for the future. This guy who says he is a moderate mainstream candidate says he doesn't care if healthcare is private or public. This guy who has a justice minister who says if the supreme courts rule on an issue that is not according the values of the right wing then the hell with the courts we will just veto it with the non-withstanding clause. Harper says he wants Quebecers to vote for a better Canada and don't vote PQ but he says he will shaft their language rights. He also wants Atlantic Canadians to vote for him but he insults them by saying they have a mentality of defeatism on national tv.
If ya want to see what kind of Canada Harper would have brought just look south of the border. Right wing government that caters to big corporations and the top 10% of society with big tax breaks. A guy that would spend big on military and put us in huge deficits.
Look at the drug debate in the US right now. Drug companies put pressure on Bush so he won't let seniors buy cheaper drugs. Why? Because it would hurt their bottom line on the Billions in profits they are taking in charging 50-100% more. Also Canadian drugs are unsafe and vulnerable to terrorists. They finally figured out why Canadians drugs are so cheap. We let Osama Bin Laden brew up our Buckleys and Geritol in unclean moon-shine containers.
It wasn't change we were afraid of. Harpers philosphies would have put us back 30-40 years. Also Ontario is the Liberals only stronghold in Canada. Without Quebec the Liberals could only have a minority. If Harper took Ontario he could have had a majority. Thats another reason we voted Liberal.
What baffles me is how can the west vote in radical right wing guys like Wright into Parliament.
CHANGE IS INEVITABLE, GROWTH IS OPTIONAL
We Ontarians had plenty to be angry about, if not more after Dalton McGuinty broke his election promise to not to raise taxes.
We were angry but we woke up and looked at what Harper was trying to sell to us. What he was offering didn't appeal to Ontarians. He said he wasn't going to change health care but during the election he says why should we care how its administered privately or publicly. If you do nothing to stop privatization your passively allowing it to become a reality.
Harper I think was hoping everyone would remain focused on anger and not think about the issues. Thats why at every stop he mentions gun registry, and sponsorship scandal. Everyone who is angry the Liberals got in, mention that also. But how would voting in Harper have made things better for the future. This guy who says he is a moderate mainstream candidate says he doesn't care if healthcare is private or public. This guy who has a justice minister who says if the supreme courts rule on an issue that is not according the values of the right wing then the hell with the courts we will just veto it with the non-withstanding clause. Harper says he wants Quebecers to vote for a better Canada and don't vote PQ but he says he will shaft their language rights. He also wants Atlantic Canadians to vote for him but he insults them by saying they have a mentality of defeatism on national tv.
If ya want to see what kind of Canada Harper would have brought just look south of the border. Right wing government that caters to big corporations and the top 10% of society with big tax breaks. A guy that would spend big on military and put us in huge deficits.
Look at the drug debate in the US right now. Drug companies put pressure on Bush so he won't let seniors buy cheaper drugs. Why? Because it would hurt their bottom line on the Billions in profits they are taking in charging 50-100% more. Also Canadian drugs are unsafe and vulnerable to terrorists. They finally figured out why Canadians drugs are so cheap. We let Osama Bin Laden brew up our Buckleys and Geritol in unclean moon-shine containers.
It wasn't change we were afraid of. Harpers philosphies would have put us back 30-40 years. Also Ontario is the Liberals only stronghold in Canada. Without Quebec the Liberals could only have a minority. If Harper took Ontario he could have had a majority. Thats another reason we voted Liberal.
What baffles me is how can the west vote in radical right wing guys like Wright into Parliament.
CHANGE IS INEVITABLE, GROWTH IS OPTIONAL
Dennis Bassboss
Member
Two things you said Godload shows that you don't know much about Québec....
PEOPLE FROM QUÉBEC NOT ONLY FRENCH CANADIANS ARE NOT LIKE EVERY OTHER CANADIAN...THEY ARE DIFFERENT...And this is where the trouble start...If it is not recognize the easy way...In the longer way it will be recognized the hard way...also last referendum had 49%+people voting for independence...a protest vote only you are saying? Don't listen too much to the federalists rethoric...most protest votes went for the NDP and other parties..
In the next referendum you can expect 60 to 65% voting for independance...Trust me the new generation of voters are more and more inclined to go for it...Last two referendums were decided by older voters who were affraid of separation (they're was even more of them back in 1980)...But what you say reflects the reality of this country as to how Federalism doesn't work...If Ontario is where the balance of power is always decided for this country we in Québec and people down west will never get what we really want even if it is not the same thing we want..Local majority are not respected in this suppose democraty....
What puzzles me in Ontario is that you had others option but you once more rejected the different realities of the rest of the country that wanted to get rid of these bandits in power...
The structure of this country has to change if it wants to survive..
PEOPLE FROM QUÉBEC NOT ONLY FRENCH CANADIANS ARE NOT LIKE EVERY OTHER CANADIAN...THEY ARE DIFFERENT...And this is where the trouble start...If it is not recognize the easy way...In the longer way it will be recognized the hard way...also last referendum had 49%+people voting for independence...a protest vote only you are saying? Don't listen too much to the federalists rethoric...most protest votes went for the NDP and other parties..
In the next referendum you can expect 60 to 65% voting for independance...Trust me the new generation of voters are more and more inclined to go for it...Last two referendums were decided by older voters who were affraid of separation (they're was even more of them back in 1980)...But what you say reflects the reality of this country as to how Federalism doesn't work...If Ontario is where the balance of power is always decided for this country we in Québec and people down west will never get what we really want even if it is not the same thing we want..Local majority are not respected in this suppose democraty....
What puzzles me in Ontario is that you had others option but you once more rejected the different realities of the rest of the country that wanted to get rid of these bandits in power...
The structure of this country has to change if it wants to survive..
Dennis Bassboss
Member
Lots of posts missing here...It seems that LT has enough of this...Me too actually...Lets play lotto...
Dennis Bassboss
Member
Karnac said: