# 3/4 Wheels With Overlap(Lambda)

#### Rob Erhardt

##### Member
Theoretically, any set of Lotto numbers(not identical) has the
exact same chance of winning the jackpot.

But, I do not believe this is true for lower prizes.

For example...take the 3/4 Serotic wheel for 18 numbers:

1 2 3 4 7 8
1 2 3 5 9 10
1 2 4 6 9 10
1 2 5 6 11 12
1 3 4 5 11 12
1 3 5 6 7 8
1 3 13 14 15 16
1 3 13 15 17 18
1 3 14 16 17 18
2 3 4 6 11 12
2 4 5 6 7 8
2 5 13 14 15 17
2 5 13 14 16 18
2 5 15 16 17 18
3 4 5 6 9 10
4 6 13 14 17 18
4 6 13 15 16 17
4 6 14 15 16 18
7 8 9 10 13 15
7 8 9 11 16 18
7 8 10 12 16 18
7 8 11 12 14 17
7 9 10 11 14 17
7 9 11 12 13 15
8 9 10 12 14 17
8 10 11 12 13 15
9 10 11 12 16 18

This wheel has A LOT of overlap(i.e. there are 27 repeating
combinations of 4 numbers).

In simulated runs, this wheel whips the 18,6,3,4 =25 minimal
covering badly...with MANY MORE lower tier prizes won.

So, have Lotto players been mislead by Statisticians quest
for "minimal coverings"?

I`d be interested in some feedback.

Regards,

Rob

#### Beaker

##### Member
But Rob, this is a 3/4 wheel I assume 100% cover. If you expect 5/6 from this wheel you are being misled and indeed, this wheel may not be optimum

I like these wheels (lambda or L>1). I play these wheels often expecting to hit alot of lower prizes. If you hit the 4 or 5 numbers you may be lucky to get a 5, but you win alot - as you say 27 4's is not bad.

In addition, he calls that wheel a 'Lucky Bag' wheel which I guess means 3/4 to him.

The question you ask is valid - what is the cover for the lower tier prizes? How minimal is minimal? The answer for 100% cover is 1. Nick can help with this.

By the way nice wheel

Last edited:

#### Beaker

##### Member
Here is Nick's design for that 18,6,3,4,1=25
Much cleaner

01 02 04 09 11 15
01 02 05 10 16 17
01 03 06 08 11 12
01 03 07 09 10 14
01 04 08 13 14 17
01 04 12 16 17 18
01 05 07 15 16 18
01 06 09 10 13 18
02 03 05 12 14 18
02 03 06 13 15 17
02 03 08 10 11 18
02 04 07 10 12 13
02 05 06 07 08 14
02 08 09 12 14 16
03 04 05 09 17 18
03 04 08 10 15 16
03 05 07 11 13 16
03 06 07 12 16 17
04 05 06 10 11 14
04 06 07 14 15 18
04 06 09 10 16 17
05 08 09 12 13 15
06 11 13 14 16 18
07 08 09 11 17 18
10 11 12 14 15 17

#### Rob Erhardt

##### Member
Carefully compare the Serotic 18,6,3,4 =27 wheel with Nick`s minimal design for 18,6,3,4 =25.

Notice the minimal design has only a few 3 number conbinations
overlapping.

Meanwhile, the 18,6,3,4 =27 not only has over 10% 3- number
combinations overlapping...IT ALSO has 27 4-number combinations that overlap. Both systems have IDENTICAL
guarantees.

The minimal wheel has better percentage win coverage
in the 3,4,5, and 6 hit categories....BUT I CONTEND THAT
THE 27-NUMBER WHEEL IS SUPERIOR! Thats because of lambda.

It is POTENTIALLY EXPLOSIVE...and can produce many more
multiple win scanarios than the 25-number system can.

...After all...IS THIS NOT THE ONLY REASON FOR WHEELING
LOTTO NUMBERS(i.e. reduce the odds while at the same
time INCREASING THE PAYOFF).

Very important discussion I think?

Regards,

Rob

#### Beaker

##### Member
Agreed Personally, I'd play the Serotic wheel, as I mentioned - I like these L>1 wheels.

People need to be careful what wheel they play - good players know what they want.

Nick has posted some other L>1 wheels here - take a look

#### Nick Koutras

##### Member
Rob Erhardt said:
Theoretically, any set of Lotto numbers(not identical) has the
exact same chance of winning the jackpot.

-----------A----------------

Not theoretically but this is the fact!
Any set of numbers has that property.

---------------------------

But, I do not believe this is true for lower prizes.

--------------A-------------------

That is correct.

---------------------------------

For example...take the 3/4 Serotic wheel for 18 numbers:

1 2 3 4 7 8
1 2 3 5 9 10
1 2 4 6 9 10
1 2 5 6 11 12
1 3 4 5 11 12
1 3 5 6 7 8
1 3 13 14 15 16
1 3 13 15 17 18
1 3 14 16 17 18
2 3 4 6 11 12
2 4 5 6 7 8
2 5 13 14 15 17
2 5 13 14 16 18
2 5 15 16 17 18
3 4 5 6 9 10
4 6 13 14 17 18
4 6 13 15 16 17
4 6 14 15 16 18
7 8 9 10 13 15
7 8 9 11 16 18
7 8 10 12 16 18
7 8 11 12 14 17
7 9 10 11 14 17
7 9 11 12 13 15
8 9 10 12 14 17
8 10 11 12 13 15
9 10 11 12 16 18

This wheel has A LOT of overlap(i.e. there are 27 repeating
combinations of 4 numbers).

In simulated runs, this wheel whips the 18,6,3,4 =25 minimal
covering badly...with MANY MORE lower tier prizes won.

-----------A-------------

That is not correct.
The reason is the quantity of sets,
25 vs 27

We have to compare apples with apples
not apples with oranges.

-------------------------------------

So, have Lotto players been mislead by Statisticians quest
for "minimal coverings"?

-----------A--------------

minimal coverings is a minimazation process to reduce the quantity of sets
but providing the same guarantee.

---------------------------

I`d be interested in some feedback.

Regards,

Rob

Compare the Design below vs the one you post.

2 3 8 12 15 18
1 7 11 12 14 15
4 5 6 9 11 12
1 2 4 6 10 14
3 5 11 13 14 17
1 3 4 7 9 18
3 4 6 10 13 15
1 6 8 12 13 16
6 8 9 14 16 17
2 4 7 12 16 17
2 5 8 11 13 18
1 8 9 13 15 17
2 4 5 8 9 14
9 10 11 12 15 16
1 5 10 15 16 18
2 3 5 9 10 12
1 5 7 10 12 17
3 4 5 15 16 17
1 2 6 11 17 18
3 6 7 8 10 17
4 12 13 14 17 18
2 7 9 11 13 15
2 3 6 7 13 16
1 3 8 11 14 16
5 6 7 14 15 18
4 7 8 10 11 18
9 10 13 14 16 18

For some relative numbers use Covermaster's Quick Report to see
the differences.

#### Rob Erhardt

##### Member
Nick,

I think you perhaps missed my main point!

Some time ago...Robert Perkis created a 24-number
3 if 6 wheel with 20 tickets. He compared it to Serotic`s LB 58
(24 numbers in 20 games) 3 if 6 wheel from "THE ONLY
WAY TO WIN AT LOTTO" third printing.

I think it was under "all wheels are not the same".

Anyway, the Perkis wheel had NO OVERLAP, and naturally
higher win percentages in most categories. Meanwhile,
Serotic`system had a lot of overlap.

Afrer hundreds of thousands of simulations...YOU determined
that the Serotic wheel won MORE prizes because of Lamda.

Two systems...identical number of combinations.

So, I believe overlap IS ESSENTIAL for the LOTTO player`s
system. Reduce the odds AND increase the payoff.

I would appreciate you sheding some light on this!

Sincerely,

Rob Erhardt

#### Nick Koutras

##### Member
Rob Erhardt said:
Nick,

I think you perhaps missed my main point!

Some time ago...Robert Perkis created a 24-number
3 if 6 wheel with 20 tickets. He compared it to Serotic`s LB 58
(24 numbers in 20 games) 3 if 6 wheel from "THE ONLY
WAY TO WIN AT LOTTO" third printing.

I think it was under "all wheels are not the same".

Anyway, the Perkis wheel had NO OVERLAP, and naturally
higher win percentages in most categories. Meanwhile,
Serotic`system had a lot of overlap.

Afrer hundreds of thousands of simulations...YOU determined
that the Serotic wheel won MORE prizes because of Lamda.

Two systems...identical number of combinations.

So, I believe overlap IS ESSENTIAL for the LOTTO player`s
system. Reduce the odds AND increase the payoff.

I would appreciate you sheding some light on this!

Sincerely,

Rob Erhardt

What you are saying is correct!
The higher the overlap of combinations
while maintaining the wheel purpose,
does have the effect you indicated.

#### Karnac

##### Member
Hi folks,

Just wondering if someone can help me with a 15,6,3,4 Lambda/Serotic
wheel with lots of overlap similar to the previously posted 18,6,3,4 wheels. I've gone through the search function, reread many posts, but I'm still searching....or have I missed it? I want to use it with my current theory regarding the GH software. In addition is there a similar wheel for Super 7?

#### Rob Erhardt

##### Member
15 Number Serotic 3/4 Wheel

Here is Robert Serotic`s Version:

1. 01 02 04 07 10 13
2. 01 03 06 09 12 15
3. 01 04 05 07 10 13
4. 01 04 07 08 10 13
5. 01 04 07 10 11 13
6. 01 04 07 10 13 14
7. 02 03 05 08 11 14
8. 02 05 06 08 11 14
9. 02 05 08 09 11 14
10. 02 05 08 11 12 14
11. 02 05 08 11 14 15
12. 03 04 06 09 12 15
13. 03 06 07 09 12 15
14. 03 06 09 10 12 15
15. 03 06 09 12 13 15

Regards,

Rob Erhardt

#### Karnac

##### Member
Re: 15 Number Serotic 3/4 Wheel

Rob Erhardt said:
Here is Robert Serotic`s Version:

1. 01 02 04 07 10 13
2. 01 03 06 09 12 15
3. 01 04 05 07 10 13
4. 01 04 07 08 10 13
5. 01 04 07 10 11 13
6. 01 04 07 10 13 14
7. 02 03 05 08 11 14
8. 02 05 06 08 11 14
9. 02 05 08 09 11 14
10. 02 05 08 11 12 14
11. 02 05 08 11 14 15
12. 03 04 06 09 12 15
13. 03 06 07 09 12 15
14. 03 06 09 10 12 15
15. 03 06 09 12 13 15

Regards,

Rob Erhardt

Thanks so much Rob

#### Mytoys

##### Member
Serotic Wheels

Hi Rob,

Do you perhaps have a 24 number Serotic wheel or something similar please?

I will appreciate it very much.

Regards,