# Sums and number boundaries...

#### thornc

##### Member
If you have been reading my posts in the international forums you might have noticed a theory I'm looking at...

If the sum of the 6 regular numbers is lower then 80, then in the next 10 draws there should be a draw which the highest number is lower then 36! [1..35].

I've checked both my PT history and the Can6/49 and almost every time this will happen... while I was checking it I noticed that the opposite margin also occours...

If the sum of the 6 regular numbers is greater then 190, then in the next 10 draws there should be a draw where the lowest number will be 10! [10..49].

In most cases, the 1x number will occour around 1 to 5 draws after the 190+ sum...

Has anyone noticed this... Would you mind checking....

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#### Beaker

##### Member
thornc said:
If you have been reading my posts in the international forums you might have noticed a theory I'm looking at...

If the sum of the 6 regular numbers is lower then 80, then in the next 10 draws there should be a draw which the highest number is lower then 36! [1..35].

I've checked both my PT history and the Can6/49 and almost every time this will happen... while I was checking it I noticed that the opposite margin also occours...

If the sum of the 6 regular numbers is greater then 190, then in the next 10 draws there should be a draw where the lowest number will be 10! [10..49].

In most cases, the 1x number will occour around 1 to 5 draws after the 190+ sum...

Has anyone noticed this... Would you mind checking....
I hadn't noticed this specific observation but you are right

I think it might fall into the category of high/low draws will tend to cluster - this we know

Great observation

##### Member
Same is true for BC49, I did a quick check of the first 2 yrs and it happened 36x in 209 draws ... most of the time in the following 1 to 5 draws ... 30x with the high draw, 6x with the low, never missed either.
Will check the rest later, looks like useful info so far

#### GillesD

##### Member
Good point but specific to high/low draws?

Actualy the data is right for Lotto 6/49 but ...

For 1982 draws (not considering the bonus number)

There are 22 draws with a sum lower than 80, and in 14 cases, in the next 10 draws, there was at least one draw where the highest number was under 36; this amounts to 63.6%

There are 245 draws with a sum greater than 190, and in 228 cases, in the next 10 draws, there was at least one draw where the lowest number was 10 or higher; this amount to 93.1%

Quite impressive

BUT BUT and BUT

What are the results if all draws are analyzed?

For all draws (always not considering the bonus number)

There are 1212 draws where in the next 10 draws, there was at least one draw where the highest number was under 36; this amount to 61.2%;

There are 1827 draws where in the next 10 draws, there was at least one draw with the lowest number was 10 or higher; this amount to 92.2%

So in one case, 63.6% vs 61.2% and in the other one, 93.1% vs 92.2%. And you have to consider that the 63.6% and 93.1% are based on a relatively low number of samples (respectively 22 and 245) while the other two values are based on 1982 samples.

So I am not sure that your theory applies only to draws with low or high sums but I would say it applies to all draws.

#### thornc

##### Member
Re: Good point but specific to high/low draws?

GillesD said:
So I am not sure that your theory applies only to draws with low or high sums but I would say it applies to all draws.

Interesting, I didn't had any software to look at the data as you did, so I couldn't get to that conclusions... I though about it but I couldn't check it....

What software did you to get this stats??

#### winhunter

##### Member
WINHunter Trigger

This sounds like an excellent candidate for a Trigger in WINHunter. I calculate the Sum, but I have had no idea what to do with it. This would be easy to do, and would lend itself to optimization easily.

Also, a good Sums processor could be designed, where an average of sums is taken, and numbers are eliminated due to their possible absence from the sum range available.

Andrew

#### Rebeckah

##### Member
Re: Good point but specific to high/low draws?

wonderful work thornc & Gilles, so what can we conclude from all this? That the low & high sums are a trigger {announcer, forcaster, predictor) for either draw #s all under 35 or all over 10.

AND Gilles, isn't there a way to convert that % to a specific # of draws so that we could predict the trend of how many draws this high or low sum would come up? You said every ten draws before, so every ten draws there should be a low sum and a high sum, and if we track that we can see when they're due & play accordingly? What do y'all think on that?

I checked the high sum theory & just from glancing thru my 6/54 database I found it accurate within 8 draws at the highest skip. I also found my database overwritten from my latest download of all lotto databases, so I now have loads of more work to do. Can anybody suggest a simple way to check the database against the master list of winning #s on the lotto homepage? thanks
arrrrrrrrggg

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#### GillesD

##### Member
A few points

To thornc

You may not be pleased with my answer but I never did buy, used, download any lottery analysis software. I keep three databases (Lotto 6/49, Québec 49 and U.K. lottery). Using available functions or VBR programming, I can usually calculate whatever I want. This is what makes the fun of it. For me lotery analysis has allowed me to master Excel which I have to use in my daily life.

To Rebeckah

1 - Basically a low or high sum will not tell you much more that all the draws. The theory thornc came out with come be rephrased to say: "In the next 10 draws, you have 2 chances out of three to have a draw with all numbers under 36" and also "In the next 10 draws, it is about sure (9 times out of 10) that you will have a draw with all number 10 and over".

2 - The data I got on Canadian Lotto 6/49 was posted: for draws with numbers under 36 in the next 10 draws, it was 1212 times and for draws with number 10 and over, it was 1827 times

3 - If you can create a text file of the two databases you want to compare, you could import into Excel, split the text into individaul values and compare each value in both database. If the two text files are well constructed, in 15 min. you should be able to identify which values are different in the two databases. Correcting them is another problem and may take more time.

To winhunter

This is the data for Canadian Lotto 6/49 (after the range for the sum, you have the number of times it occured in the 1991 draws and then the number of times it should havec occured).

Sum of 21 to 80: 23 - 31
Sum of 81 to 100: 108 - 102
Sum of 101 10 120: 195 - 243
Sum of 121 to 140: 370 - 398
Sum of 141 to 160: 501 - 465
Sum of 161 to 180: 411 - 392
Sum of 181 to 200: 241 - 235
Sum of 201 to 220: 107 - 96
Sum of 221 to 279: 35 - 29

#### Beaker

##### Member
OT - VB book

OT - sorry for the OT post but GillesD can you recommend a book that covers VB programming for Excel or will any book on VB suffice? Thanks Gilles

#### GillesD

##### Member
Learning Excel programming

If you go in a computer store or a library with computer books, you will find many books on programming in VBA for Excel. It goes from simple to expert and the best choice will depend on your knowledge of programming and what you want to learn.

I got "Excel 2000 Power programming in VBA" by J. Walkenbach and learn a few things. But as always it is pratice that will make you good and then better. For me, lotery analysis has provided me with the motivation to apply the VBA to practical applications and allowed to learn in the process.

#### thornc

##### Member
Re: A few points

GillesD said:
To thornc
You may not be pleased with my answer but I never did buy, used, download any lottery analysis software. I keep three databases (Lotto 6/49, Québec 49 and U.K. lottery). Using available functions or VBR programming, I can usually calculate whatever I want. This is what makes the fun of it. For me lotery analysis has allowed me to master Excel which I have to use in my daily life.

Why should I not be pleased... I'm a big fan of DIY (do it yourself)
and this is good example of such! I had an idea that you used Excell I didn't know that you only used Excell!

A quick question, how do you keep the databases, in Access mdb, in a separate xls, or in a csv? I assume that you have some kind of VBA form to ease the operation of the options, at least that's what I would do...

I remember a very good book, that you could read online at MS site, it had something to do with MS Object Model that is used in MS Office and is a great basis for VBA programming... don't know the exact name but I can look it up!

#### GillesD

##### Member
Use of Excel

My databases are in Excel files (.xls) and other files refer to these files to get the proper data.

I have one file that calculates automatically:
- ratio of odd/even numbers (from 6/0 to 0/6)
- distribution of the sum of numbers into 9 sub-groups
- distribution of range (high - low number) into 7 sub-groups
- ratio of high/low numbers (from 6/0 to 0/6)
- the time the 6 numbers of a draw repeat in the next
- distribution of consecutives in a draw (from 1-1-1-1-1-1 to 6-0-0-0-0-0
- distribution of last digit (0 to 9) and the spread of LD (from 1-1-1-1-1-1 to 5-1-0-0-0-0)
- distribution of numbers by decades (1-9, 10-19, ...) and the spread in decades (from 2-1-1-1-1 to 6-0-0-0-0)
- distribution of numbers by dozens (1-12, 13-24, ...) and the spread in decades (from 2-1-1-1-1 to 6-0-0-0-0)

All calculations are automatically updated as I opened the file. In this case, I use only available functions in Excel. Such a large file is unusual, normally I keep a file to keep track of one statistic (whether the Delta distribution, the distribution on numbers in the 6 positions, etc.). In some cases, I calculate without and with the bonus number.

I use VBA as last resort to facilitate data entry or calcultate large numbers of possibilities (pairs, triple, quads, ...). I would rather use formulas as results are almost instantneous even with a large database.

My files are usually set for 2000 draws which mean that I will have to update quite a few in the near future.

#### Beaker

##### Member
Re: Learning Excel programming

GillesD said:
If you go in a computer store or a library with computer books, you will find many books on programming in VBA for Excel. It goes from simple to expert and the best choice will depend on your knowledge of programming and what you want to learn.

I got "Excel 2000 Power programming in VBA" by J. Walkenbach and learn a few things. But as always it is pratice that will make you good and then better. For me, lotery analysis has provided me with the motivation to apply the VBA to practical applications and allowed to learn in the process.
Thanks for that Gilles. I am like you, I use the lotto to execise my Excel skills which are very limitied. But this SW can be a very powerful tool. I believe it is good to invest in 1 or 2 good reference books just to see things you may not have known. I will look into the one you have.

#### Rebeckah

##### Member
Re: A few points

GillesD said:
3 - If you can create a text file of the two databases you want to compare, you could import into Excel, split the text into individaul values and compare each value in both database. If the two text files are well constructed, in 15 min. you should be able to identify which values are different in the two databases. Correcting them is another problem and may take more time.

I have Quatro pro 10 now & I'm not sure is that a scaled down version of Excel? I just got Quatro {came bundled) & have ALOT to learn because I've been using MSworks '95 spreadsheet which has so few functions, but still served my needs. So you're saying to just paste it into 12 seperate columns and look at them? ok, but I was hoping for a function, or some way to do it computer-wise. I don't want to make a mistake.
thank you for the synopsis how'd you get 2 out of 3 in point one?

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#### saliu

##### Member
Cristi:
I didn’t know you was that much involved in game theory, lotto specifically. What you noticed sounds like a theorem:

“If the sum of the 6 regular numbers is lower then 80, then in the next 10 draws there should be a draw which the highest number is lower then 36! [1..35].

If the sum of the 6 regular numbers is greater then 190, then in the next 10 draws there should be a draw where the lowest number will be 10! [10..49].”

That could be great stuff, if it holds true scientifically. That is, pass the data-validating test. Software can be written to check against real draw files, and also randomly generated combinations.

The numbers you give could be correlated to the fundamental formula of gambling (FFG). For example, 80/49=1.63; 190/49=3.87. Playing only numbers between 10 and 36 would make a whole lot of sense, especially if the occurrence is higher within 5 draws since last hit.

You know how my software works. You can write software to check your theorem, if it is a theorem. But playing only 26 out of 49 numbers (53%) is even better than playing the last 26 roulette numbers (68%) - of course, if we can get a handle of the streak!

Ion Saliu
PS
I decided to offer my licensed software for a nominal fee. You knew how they worked, there is nothing new. Others can get more info at:
www.saliu.com/traffic.html
or
www.saliu.com/WhatNew.htm
IS

#### saliu

##### Member
Oh, something people may not have known of. I offer freeware to calculate the sum totals of any lottery games: SUMS.EXE. The program is free to download from:
www.saliu.com/infodown.html

Ion Saliu

#### thornc

##### Member
Saliu...

I didn’t know you was that much involved in game theory, lotto specifically
I'm not that much involved, only trying to get oppinions, from these well educated people here...

Playing only numbers between 10 and 36 would make a whole lot of sense
Not what I mean, they are two separate statements, I haven't found any occasion were both events happened... I only checked manually, but I doubt it!

Hehe, the funny thing is that the sum<80: #s < 36 just hit tonite on the PT lotto! I only made a 3in6

Gilles
Could you please check how many times/percentage a draw with numbers beetween [10..35] has hit in the Can 6/49, I would do it myself, but I think you can get them quicker... and if there are many have you noticed any correlation to the sums??

I have to check the PT lotto like you did to see, if your findings can be transposed to this one!

#### GillesD

##### Member
Numbers between 10 and 35

In the 1992 draws of Canadian Lotto 6/49, only 35 draws (1.76%) had all the 6 winning numbers between 10 and 35 (including those two values).

The distribution of the sum for these 35 draws is:

- 0 with the sum between 81 and 90
- 1 with the sum between 91 and 100
- 3 with the sum between 101 and 110
- 4 with the sum between 111 and 120
- 8 with the sum between 121 and 130
- 7 with the sum between 131 and 140
- 9 with the sum between 141 and 150
- 2 with the sum between 151 and 160
- 1 with the sum between 161 and 170

#### Dennis Bassboss

##### Member
Nice post on the Canadian 6/49 draws …but is it right ??? I had to checked them since like anyone else you post some wrong datas in the past…
These are the 35 draws having numbers from 10 to 35 including 10 and 35 without bonus !!
I just wanted to see if Mister perfect was perfect this time…..Yes He was this time!!!

Sums–-draws
096=0932
103=1593
104=1538
110=0037
111=1952
114=1559
116=0449
119=1421
121=1434
123=1318
125=0908
126=1869
126=1816
129=1569
129=1179
130=0408
134=0974
134=0782
138=1533
138=0906
138=0386
139=1543
139=0620
141=1299
141=0208
142=1021
143=0335
144=1766
147=0519
149=1444
149=0845
150=0856
153=0564
160=0301
165=1143
®®

#### Dennis Bassboss

##### Member
saliu said:
Oh, something people may not have known of. I offer freeware to calculate the sum totals of any lottery games: SUMS.EXE. The program is free to download from:
www.saliu.com/infodown.html

Ion Saliu
And I'm not using this either....