simple algorithms

daleks

Member
:wavey: :idea: :teach: :teach: looking around the board i see lots of stochaic things, stats, probabilities, combos and stuff like that. nice history and simple math lessons, but they don't really predict much and the ones that do are soooooooooo large that no one can afford to play them.........:idea2: :idea2: :idea2: .....so with all the computing power now available, how difficult could it possibly be to devise a simple (urgh!) algorithm discovering the kernel in the computer generated games.......:idea: :idea: :idea:
 

NmbrsDude

Member
Daleks,

All very nice theory, that... Start posting some predictions and let's see where your algorithms land, shall we?

ND
:)
 
TO NMBSRDUDE

Hey Dude,

Daleks is doing very fine with BC/49 and he did post some predictions with BC/49. It did click and I didn't follow it so I paid the price of course...He asks me for 6/49 help so I told him I am no help and maybe you guys might be able to help but then again you ppl haven't being doing well for a long time .
So don't expect him to post any prediction for your lotto.
Cheers
 

NmbrsDude

Member
Fair enough,

I don't follow the BC49 thread being that I'm in Ontario and all so my apologies if I was unaware of any successes there. All the same, Daleks, feel free to try your hand at 6/49 and see how your system does there. Bottom line is, it's still a lottery so any theory has a shot, at least for a short period of time. So join the thread and let's see if we can't combine forces and help everyone benefit from it.
Combo's right in saying that we people on this forum haven't been doing too well as a whole lately, but that's not to say some haven't had any success either. It's kind of like the economy, you have some good times, and you have some bad times.

ND
:cool:

I know I may have come across as a little testy earlier but it was only because it seemed like Daleks was implying that the draw discussion threads were not centered on worthy theories according to him. I just want to add that not everyone on this forum participates in those threads, for their own reasons, so one cannot assume that what's said in the thread represents everyone's theories on this site. I'm sure if we could document it, there are probably hundreds of varying approaches to this game and they all have their merits. I just try to learn a little bit from each one I come across and hopefully create something that works.

:)
 
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daleks

Member
algorithms

hey there numbrsdude
thanks, it is always nice to receive encouragement, although i am hesitant posting numbers on a " question & answer " forum, and uncertain what posting numbers has to do with a random number generator. still, good to have another-voice-heard-from.

Should anyone reading this be current in numbers theory, i would appreciate contact. i am 20 years out of date on the literature yet poring over some of the publications lately, especially the eastern european and russian universities - their marhkov chain stuff is even way beyond now - it seems do-able to come up with the seed. bclc have provided the time their fred machine programme started running and i do have unfettered cpu access to one of the large machines, able to run such a programme, hopefully in some reasonable length of time.....like before the end of the century.........cheers.:dunce:
 
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Decoding the seed... interesting idea.
I'm basically working that from a "brute force" angle right now... searching for seeds that produce matches over multiple iterations... I'm a little light on the VB skills, any idea how to implement the Markov Chains theory in VB?
 

Irvin

Member
Hello Hypersoniq,

I think Thornc has done something on Markov chains.

He might be able to help you there.

Regards,

Irvin
 

thornc

Member
Yes I've looked at Markov Chains... but only at the very basic theory behind it!

Not the complex math and such, not that would be a problem for me, but simple because like daleks is saying sometimes a simple algorithm is all it takes! My tests with the Markov chains theory has only this in mind, I wanted to test the basic theory and I wanted to learn how to handle some programming concept, and when I usually face this task I resort to the lottery or some other thing were I have a good enough knowledge to prepare the tests and interpret the results!

Did I get somewhere? Yes!
Is it a worth looking at lotto tool? Perhaps!
Does it give good results? NO! But it promisses too!


Daleks, I don't remember if you ever posted links to those materials you're talking about (East European stuff), but could you point it to me!

As a final point, I did come across a program that used Markov Chains to make some prediction things it was mainly for finance... but it had been tested in lottory, someone even told me that he had worked out a way to predict the numbers at position 1 and 6 (of the sorted results) effectively. Unfortunately at that time I didn't had the time to look at it, when I tried to get my hands on that program the company had gone down and I can't find nowhere! Don't even remember the exact name, because I can't even find it on my backups of downloaded stuff!
 

daleks

Member
hi thornc.......i am 'way far from home just now, but will find stuff by saturday-monday (13th-15th).......i'm too much of a dummy these days to sit down and remember anything more complex than boiling an egg at sea level, but perhaps with some application some numbers could be predicted..................cheers
 

Rob50

Member
Seed and Markov!

1. Seed? Very good idea, but do you know that there exists
random number generators with periods as big as 10 to 24th.
So what if the lottery guys use sequential random number generators where the output of one is the seed for the next one and so on. After that through another random number generator they define the order in the sequence where they will pick the damn six numbers + B. All this done automatically in their super computer. I bet even the programmer him/herself can't predict a thing based on the seed. I don't think this is the best way to approach the problem.

2. Markov chains. In this case one has to work with matrices 49x6. Not impossible with todays computers. The problem is the terms of the matrice will be all the same precisely 6/49 to reflect the theoretical frequential probability that has each and every number to be drawn. If one wants to go Bayesian the matrices elements will be slightly different from 6/49, based on the real frequency of the numbers. In both cases, the Markov chain will work llike a random number generator with uniform distribution.

Good luck!
 

Irvin

Member
Hello Rob50,

So you are saying that they are probably using the following for a randon seed (RS);

RS x RS x RS x RS

hmmmm Just like lotto :lol:
 

Irvin

Member
Just clicked,

The cant use RS x RS x RS........

because isnt a random seed less than 1?

So RS x RS x RS = almost zero.

Sorry just ignore what I just wrote.

hmmm (RS+1) x (RS+1)....

Dont know much about random seed anyway.
 

Rob50

Member
Hi Irvin,

The seed is a number that is used to initialize the random generator. More specifically: A random Generator is an algorithm which uses its own output as an input to generate the next random number, which will be used as input for the next one and so on. It is clear that a random number generator needs the first number to start work, that's called THE SEED. In principle there is not any limitation in choosing the seed. It can be <1, >1 or even something like 34561345567354.

What I was pointing out in my previous post is that the lottery guys can use sequential algorithms, i.e. more than one number generator where the output of the first is not put in the same generator, but in a different one (like a seed) and so on like a cascade.

They have one more possibility, they can choose the six numbers+bonus wherever they want in the sequence. As you can see there are so many mysteries in the so called 'SEED'

Hope it helps

Regards

Rob
 

peter

Member
Just to add to all the things said above, I have ALWAYS stated here in this forum that the numbers drawn in one draw have an influence of the numbers drawn for the very next draw, there have been those that have poo- pawed this statement. because this would make the statement that the lotto is fixed.
 
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