# Permutations (wheeling?) for Pick 3

#### jlovie

##### Member
Hi everyone, as you might notice this is my first post, although I have been watching and learning from this site for a while now. I have learned a lot and unfortunately become a bit more confused.

I'm not sure if "permutation" is the same as "wheeling", but for this discussion I will assume it is. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will let me know.

Anywho, I came across a website a while ago that sells different permutation's for different lotteries. On his site, his lists his 5 number permutation for Pick 3. (pick 5 numbers from 0-9 and put them in to his formula and if 2 numbers from the 5 you picked are drawn, the formula will supply the 3rd number). I've tried it out on paper and it does what it says as long as atleast 2 numbers from the 5 you picked are drawn.

My question is, he sells permutation's for pretty much every lottery and you can purchase his 6 number pick 3 permutation for \$9.99 up to 9 numbers for \$30. The problem is, with the 9 number system, you have to play 84 lines which does not include doubles. Is there a better way to perm pick 3 numbers? Someone may have posted the formula on here already and I may not have realized what I was looking at. It that's the case, sorry for not noticing it.

I think I've rambled on enough, thank you everyone for your time.

#### Sheba

##### Member
Sounds like Wheeling to me but he uses DN or Bankers....No need to buy that ...

Sheba__ ~~~
\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$

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#### Beaker

##### Member
That 9 number \$84 wheel is a full wheel

Don't pay for any pick3/4/5/6/7 wheels - no need

You can create that (6,3) wheel very simply. In fact, Nick has posted a thread on Bankers (2 numbers) and you can add a third.

In my mind, these daily games are a matter of budget - what do you want to spend - then build the best wheels for the numbers you want to play.

#### jlovie

##### Member
Thanks for the replies.

The site does not mention anything about DN or Bank numbers, it's basically just giving you the formula to put the numbers in. No mention of how to pick the numbers you will be playing.

I beleive I read the post you are talking about entitled "use of wheels as bankers", but I did not understand it. I might have missed it, but is there a thread or site that will show me how to run my own Pick 3 wheels? Thanks again!

#### Beaker

##### Member
jlovie said:
Thanks for the replies.

The site does not mention anything about DN or Bank numbers, it's basically just giving you the formula to put the numbers in. No mention of how to pick the numbers you will be playing.

I beleive I read the post you are talking about entitled "use of wheels as bankers", but I did not understand it. I might have missed it, but is there a thread or site that will show me how to run my own Pick 3 wheels? Thanks again!
Get the beta version of Covermaster - you can wheel away for free.

#### hot4

##### Member
jlovie said:
Hi everyone, as you might notice this is my first post, although I have been watching and learning from this site for a while now. I have learned a lot and unfortunately become a bit more confused.

I'm not sure if "permutation" is the same as "wheeling", but for this discussion I will assume it is. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will let me know.

Anywho, I came across a website a while ago that sells different permutation's for different lotteries. On his site, his lists his 5 number permutation for Pick 3. (pick 5 numbers from 0-9 and put them in to his formula and if 2 numbers from the 5 you picked are drawn, the formula will supply the 3rd number). I've tried it out on paper and it does what it says as long as atleast 2 numbers from the 5 you picked are drawn.

My question is, he sells permutation's for pretty much every lottery and you can purchase his 6 number pick 3 permutation for \$9.99 up to 9 numbers for \$30. The problem is, with the 9 number system, you have to play 84 lines which does not include doubles. Is there a better way to perm pick 3 numbers? Someone may have posted the formula on here already and I may not have realized what I was looking at. It that's the case, sorry for not noticing it.

I think I've rambled on enough, thank you everyone for your time.

Welcome jlovie!

Really permutation is not the same as wheeling.

Regarding permutations, you can see that 1,2,3 is different from 2,3,1. With these 3 numbers there are 6 different cases (3!=6)

"A permutation is the rearrangement of elements in an ordered list S into a one-to-one correspondence with S itself, also called an "arrangement number" or "order." The number of permutations on a set of n elements is given by (n factorial; Uspensky 1937, p. 18). For example, there are 3! permutations of {1,2,3} , namely {1,2,3}, {1,3,2}, {2,3,1}, {2,1,3}, {3,1,2} and {3,2,1}."

Regarding the term wheeling, numbers order doesn't matter. What matters is the guarantee; if you played 1,2,3 and numbers has been drawn in this order 3,2,1 you match 3 numbers!

I hope you understand.

Frank

#### jlovie

##### Member
Thanks again everyone.

I thought I would post what the site I am talking about has on his site, he lists his "5 number" free permutation formula which you can try, then you have the option to purchase his 6-9 number formulas. If 2 of your picked numbers are drawn, the formula will give you the third. This is basically it:

Pick 5 numbers from 0-9, for this example, I will pick 7,4,2,0,9 and put them into the following formula:

7 - xx xx xx
4 - x xx x x x
2 - xx xxx x
0 - xxx xxx
9 - xxxxxx

Then replace the "x" with the number at the beginning of that line and you get the following numbers to play. You come up with the following numbers:

7-4-0
7-2-0
4-2-0
7-4-9
7-2-9
4-2-9
2-0-9
4-0-9
7-0-9
7-4-2

Can anyone continue that formula from 5 numbers to 6,7,8,9?

#### hot4

##### Member
This is a wheel indeed. This wheel guarantees to you 3 numbers if 3of5 are drawn (5,3,3,3=10).

There are 5! (120) permutations of 5 numbers. To play pick3 "straight" you have 10/120 chances using this wheel.

There are 9! (9*8*7*6*120) permutations of 9 numbers. If you want a wheel with 84 lines of three numbers you don't need a software to do that. Just combine your 9 numbers three-to-three.

You'll get the 9,3,3,3=84 lines wheel. You don't need to buy that, just be patient:

1,2,3
1,2,4
1,2,5
1,2,6
1,2,6
1,2,7
1,2,8
1,2,9

1,3,4
1,3,5
1,3,6
1,3,7
1,3,8
1,3,9

1,4,5
....
7,8,9

As you see this is a wheel; you cannot win prizes regarding the order of numbers drawn in pick3.

Frank

#### hot4

##### Member
After you get the 84 lines you can import them in CoverMaster and afterwards to substitute by the 9 numbers of your choice.

If you'll need some help to do that just ask here. We'll give some tips.

#### jlovie

##### Member
Thanks for the help, but I am still a little confused, plus I like to do things on paper rather then use a computer, that's just me.

I understand the formula that I posted because I can just substitue numbers for "x". Can I somehow continue that wheel with numbers 0-9, or is there a simpler wheel? I also may not be reading the last post right, but I don't understand that wheel either. Sorry if I am causing trouble.

#### hot4

##### Member
Yes it's better for you to write on a paper.

The wheel is not finished. You need 84 lines of 3 numbers to fullfill 9,3,3if3.

Where I put "....", you need to go on grouping the 9 numbers in lines of 3.

No problem.

#### jlovie

##### Member
Ok, now I get it. I wrote everything out and have my 84 numbers. Is that considered a full wheel? I guess for it to be a full wheel, I would have to start with 0,1,2? How would I apply these numbers to use in Pick 3? I like the formula below because all I need to do is pick out 5 numbers, run the formula and if three of them are picked I will win, can this same principal be applied using the wheel I just made? This is probably another stupid question though.

#### hot4

##### Member
jlovie said:
Ok, now I get it. I wrote everything out and have my 84 numbers. Is that considered a full wheel? I guess for it to be a full wheel, I would have to start with 0,1,2? How would I apply these numbers to use in Pick 3? I like the formula below because all I need to do is pick out 5 numbers, run the formula and if three of them are picked I will win, can this same principal be applied using the wheel I just made? This is probably another stupid question though.

Not a stupid question jlovie. As you said it's a full wheel. If 3 of your 9 numbers are drawn it's granted for you to hit them. And if in the correct order, great!

As you need to play a number from 0-8, CoverMaster doesn't accept the zero. It's better for you to try Ininuga that will get this wheel and will allow you to substitute it by your 9 selected numbers.

Ininuga made this 9,3,3,3=84 (full wheel):

# Ininuga - Lotto Wheels, by Uros Boltin

# Created new

Numbers: 9 (2, 12, 14, 20, 23, 31, 33, 35, 38)
Pick: 3
Guarantee: 3
Condition: 3
Combinations: 84
Skip first number (index): NO

2 12 14
2 12 20
2 12 23
2 12 31
2 12 33
2 12 35
2 12 38
2 14 20
2 14 23
2 14 31
2 14 33
2 14 35
2 14 38
2 20 23
2 20 31
2 20 33
2 20 35
2 20 38
2 23 31
2 23 33
2 23 35
2 23 38
2 31 33
2 31 35
2 31 38
2 33 35
2 33 38
2 35 38
12 14 20
12 14 23
12 14 31
12 14 33
12 14 35
12 14 38
12 20 23
12 20 31
12 20 33
12 20 35
12 20 38
12 23 31
12 23 33
12 23 35
12 23 38
12 31 33
12 31 35
12 31 38
12 33 35
12 33 38
12 35 38
14 20 23
14 20 31
14 20 33
14 20 35
14 20 38
14 23 31
14 23 33
14 23 35
14 23 38
14 31 33
14 31 35
14 31 38
14 33 35
14 33 38
14 35 38
20 23 31
20 23 33
20 23 35
20 23 38
20 31 33
20 31 35
20 31 38
20 33 35
20 33 38
20 35 38
23 31 33
23 31 35
23 31 38
23 33 35
23 33 38
23 35 38
31 33 35
31 33 38
31 35 38
33 35 38

Hoping that helps,

Frank