Change of Formula

bloubul

Member
How do I change this formula to BINOMDIST in excel.

In A1 is blank
In A2 I have the word None
In A3 I have the word One
In A4 I have the word Two
In A5 I have the word Three

In B1 I have 5.
In B2 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,0) but it shows #NAME?
In A3 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,1) but it shows #NAME?
In A4 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,2) but it shows #NAME?
In A5 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,3) but it shows #NAME?

In N2 I have 15
In O1 I have 1620
In O2 I have this formula =B(1620,1/45,15) but it shows #NAME?
It must be changed to the BINOMDIST formula in excel.

I trust that I have explain it correctly.

Please any one

BlouBul :cool:
 

Frank

Member
How do I change this formula to BINOMDIST in excel.

In A1 is blank
In A2 I have the word None
In A3 I have the word One
In A4 I have the word Two
In A5 I have the word Three

In B1 I have 5.
In B2 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,0) but it shows #NAME?
In A3 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,1) but it shows #NAME?
In A4 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,2) but it shows #NAME?
In A5 I have this formula =B(5,1/45,3) but it shows #NAME?

In N2 I have 15
In O1 I have 1620
In O2 I have this formula =B(1620,1/45,15) but it shows #NAME?
It must be changed to the BINOMDIST formula in excel.

I trust that I have explain it correctly.

Please any one

BlouBul :cool:



Well I don't know where to start with this one. Theres so much wrong with this question - its just impossible to comprehend.

Firstly there is no such function as B, unless someone has written a custom function B(a,b,c) where it expects to receive 3 parameters such as a,b,c. Thats why you get #NAME? error. Excel tells you that it cant find function B.

I have no way of knowing what the purpose of such a function would be or what the connection with the BINOMDIST function might be.

The words "none" "one" "two" "three" are not even used anywhere in any formula so why do you mention them ? What do they mean ??

There is a similar problem with O1 and N2. Neither of these cells are used in any formula so why mention them ?


Do you even know WHY "It must be changed to the BINOMDIST formula in excel"?
What do you know about the function, what made this jump into your head?

The BINOMDIST function need to be told FOUR things, in other words it has 4 parameters inside the brackets. The function you mention B(a,b,c) has only three parameters which you have not explained.

e.g
You are not telling us what 1/45 really is, (perhaps the odds of choosing a named ball from 45) what 5 is (possibly 5 balls are chosen but from how many ??) , what 0,1,2,3 is in the real world.

Heres how the BINOMDIST function is used.
For example :- Suppose you wanted to know the probability of getting at the most 65 heads in 100 coin tosses.

We know the probability of getting one head in one throw is 0.5.

Then you can use the BINOMDIST function like this :- =BINOMDIST( 65, 100, 0.5, TRUE )
Its easy to see what the parameters really are. 65 tosses, 100 trials, prob of a head, TRUE

TRUE is a switch which decides whether you want the Binomial Cumulative Distribution Function (use TRUE) basically the area under the binomial curve up to point 65, which tells you the probability of getting at the most 65 heads (includes all the other possible outcomes lower than 65) it gives 0.999105035

If you use FALSE then it calculates the Binomial Distribution Probability Mass Function, which is the VALUE of the binomial curve at EXACTLY 65 tosses :- the probability of getting EXACTLY 65 heads (not more , not less). It gives 0.000863856. This is very specific, hence such a low value.

You therefore need to be very clear what you are trying to achieve, what information you are going to feed in and what you are wanting to know from this information.

Until then no-one can help you.


For more info read this :- https://www.excelfunctions.net/excel-binomdist-function.html you may be able to figure it out after reading this.
 

bloubul

Member
Frank

I did try to explain correctly as possible.
Here is an extract from the original sheet.

Yes I did read the info that you gave, but I'm no mathematician thus I'm still dead in the water.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/di0byuzes9zs8jw/645_Lottery.xlsx/file

BlouBul :cool:
 

Frank

Member
Frank

I did try to explain correctly as possible.
Here is an extract from the original sheet.

Yes I did read the info that you gave, but I'm no mathematician thus I'm still dead in the water.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/di0byuzes9zs8jw/645_Lottery.xlsx/file

BlouBul :cool:


I did try to explain correctly as possible.

Really?

I asked you at least 5 direct questions. You did not answer even one of them.

Let me remind you of three of them.

Do you even know WHY "It must be changed to the BINOMDIST formula in Excel"?

What do you know about the function, what made this jump into your head?

You therefore need to be very clear what you are trying to achieve, what information you are going to feed in and what you are wanting to know from this information.

Until then no-one can help you.


Despite all these comments and questions, not one single answer ???

You don't kow what you want the sheet for, what you hope to achieve when its working ?? If YOU don't know,I'm sure I don't.
Despite your reluctance to tell me what you are up to, I have done some work to find out what the author might have been up to. It appears to be a table to calculate the probability of a number (any number) in a 645 lottery to appear an exact number of times (X) after a specified number of draws (d). Those words One Two three four are just labels. So there are columns of probabilities for each of the set number of elapsed draws 5,10,15,20,30 and the rows correspond to the values of X =0,1,2,3,4.
He has used a custom function which according to you is using the Binomial distribution to achieve this.
It does look like he got out of his depth and abandoned ship leaving it unfinished.

I have replaced his function with the BINOMDIST function which uses four parameters X,d,6/45,FALSE.
So the probability of exactly 2 appearances of any number (in 645 lotto) after 15 draws is BINOMDIST(2,15,6/45,FALSE) = 0.2095.
Note that the third parameter I'm using is 6/45 = 0.13333. That is the probability of any specified ball of the six numbers drawn appearing in a single draw. I notice that the author mentioned 'position' in his labelling, which I have ruled out since the BINOMDIST function doesn't care about position. In any case if the numbers were sorted after being drawn then the probabilities of being in a certain position are a whole different ball game.

The question arises "What use are these figures" ? Beats me unless there is another part of the spreadsheet that does something clever with the figures. I'm wondering if the author was using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, trying to work out how many times a number SHOULD be out by any given number of draws d.

Take a look at the results for 30 draws:-
30

None 0.0137
ONE 0.0631
TWO 0.1407
THREE 0.2020
FOUR 0.2098
FIVE 0.1678
SIX 0.1076
SEVEN 0.0567
EIGHT 0.0251
NINE 0.0094
TEN 0.0030
ELEVEN 0.0009
TWELVE 0.0002

You will notice that the highest probability 0.2098 occurs after 4 draws. So the table tells us that after 30 draws any ball would statistically be most likely have been drawn 4 times.

But you don't need the BINOMDIST function to get this information. Its a very easy calculation. its (number of draws ..30) x 6/45=4. Simple. (((Shrug))).

On Sheet 2 is bigger more sophisticated table expanded to over 200 draws and 46 appearances, the lotto matrix is not fixed at 6/45 it can be changed. The maximum probability in each column is used to find the expected number of appearances of a ball at that number of draws - read off row 7.

The problem with using BINOMDIST is that the parameters have to be compatible or you get a #NUM! error. For example you cant ask for the probability that a number is drawn 20 times in 10 draws, thats a silly impossible question. That is the reason my formulas are more complicated, they have to filter out the #NUM! errors which occur on the rows and columns of sheet 2 when X is greater than d and also filter out any non zero values which are infinitesmally small.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/q74clde8gg7jrgl/645_Lottery.xlsx/file

That's what I think is going on anyway.
 

blitzed

Member

Hi, that was one of my old spreadsheets, goal simply to help gauge probabilities. In the past I've successfully used such spreadsheets to isolate the most probable playfield, sometimes taking it down to as little as 20% while still having the draw numbers.

The spreadsheet was done in Open Office/Libre Office Calc, and a copy exported as Excel. However, it's B function for Binomial Distribution which did not even exist in Excel in any form to my knowledge until 2010.

Here is the Calc function from the help file;
B
Returns the probability of a sample with binomial distribution.
Syntax
B(Trials; SP; T1; T2)
Trials is the number of independent trials.
SP is the probability of success on each trial.
T1 defines the lower limit for the number of trials.
T2 (optional) defines the upper limit for the number of trials.
Example
What is the probability with ten throws of the dice, that a six will come up exactly twice? The probability of a six (or any other number) is 1/6. The following formula combines these factors:
=B(10;1/6;2) returns a probability of 29%.

cya,
blitzed:)
 

Frank

Member

Hi, that was one of my old spreadsheets, goal simply to help gauge probabilities. In the past I've successfully used such spreadsheets to isolate the most probable playfield, sometimes taking it down to as little as 20% while still having the draw numbers.

The spreadsheet was done in Open Office/Libre Office Calc, and a copy exported as Excel. However, it's B function for Binomial Distribution which did not even exist in Excel in any form to my knowledge until 2010.

Here is the Calc function from the help file;
B
Returns the probability of a sample with binomial distribution.
Syntax
B(Trials; SP; T1; T2)
Trials is the number of independent trials.
SP is the probability of success on each trial.
T1 defines the lower limit for the number of trials.
T2 (optional) defines the upper limit for the number of trials.
Example
What is the probability with ten throws of the dice, that a six will come up exactly twice? The probability of a six (or any other number) is 1/6. The following formula combines these factors:
=B(10;1/6;2) returns a probability of 29%.

cya,
blitzed:)



Well, thanks for clearing that up. It might have been better had you replied earlier to Bloubuls request and even better had Bloubul not been so cryptic about its origins and use.
The normal and most common use of the function is exactly as I mentioned in my first post then. I was puzzled as to why it was applied to the lottery in that way and particularly what use the figures would be in lottery result prediction. Knowing that after 15 draws there is a 0.2905 probability of any number having been drawn twice is only useful if that figure is used elsewhere in another application to help perhaps as a filter. The most useful feature in my opinion would have done the calculation for any number of draws or set appearances was not yet developed .Thats why I thought it was unfinished.

Mystery solved, Thank you

Frank :)
 

blitzed

Member

Hi, most welcome Frank...yeah, I do not frequent the forums as often as I used to.

Anyway, I originally used the binomial distribution probability charts on my pick3 spreadsheet;

10 Draws One Ball Slot [ie. =B(10,1/10,0)]
None 34.87%
One 38.74%
Two 19.37%
Three 5.74%
Four 1.12%
Five 0.15%

10 Draws All Three Ball Slots [ie. =B(10,3/10,0)]
None 2.82%
One 12.11%
Two 23.35%
Three 26.68%
Four 20.01%
Five 10.29%

so I just cookie-cuttered the formula into other spreadsheets for what it was worth...just one of many indicator tools to use when trying to chase down a winning combo :)

take it easy,
blitzed /0

 

bloubul

Member
Gentlemen

I thank you for the in depth explanations and lesson that you have taught me.

One more question, all of a sudden the spreadsheet gives me a warning "Spreadsheet saved but excel cannot re-open it due to a sharing violation", how do I turn it off please.

BlouBul :cool:
 

Frank

Member
Gentlemen

I thank you for the in depth explanations and lesson that you have taught me.

One more question, all of a sudden the spreadsheet gives me a warning "Spreadsheet saved but excel cannot re-open it due to a sharing violation", how do I turn it off please.

BlouBul :cool:

Ive never heard of this before. Having googled "excel cannot re-open it due to a sharing violation" it appears to be problem at your end, nothing to do with that specific file. It was inspected using document inspector before uploading.

There are many possible causes ranging from you using illegal characters in the filename, trying to save to a forbidden drive or one named with illegal characters. Some causes blame AVG virus protection, or a recent Windows update.
Some of the solutions involve repairing Excel but I wouldn't go down that road until youve done some detective work'

Have you opened and saved any other Excel files ?
Have you tried renaming the file and saving it to a different place on your PC?
Some people encountered this only when trying to save to "onedrive"

Take a look at the more recent solutions on page 2 of this thread.


https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2010-excel/the-document-was-saved-successfully-but-excel/edb4f192-546b-4fa9-8c04-42e3f631046b

There are more suggestions and possible solutions here:-

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/excel-2016-sharing-violation/b0a0f4af-206e-4d65-8a56-d36a032dee55

If it is only that file you can re-download it, re-name it and see if you can save it to your desktop without making any changes. then try again after making changes.
You need to do a bit of detective work.:)
 

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